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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

  1. #1141
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    So what? It still does not allow public accommodations to discriminate.

    When a church/altar/religious ceremonies candle making company refuses to sell gay wedding candles I can understand and agree that this would not be a public accommodation (as meant by the law) and they should be allowed to refuse to make those candles that they do not have in their normal production line/process.

    A flower shop makes flower arrangements and if they are asked to make a wedding bouquet, nothing special nothing strange or out of the ordinary (other than it being used in a gay wedding ceremony).

    The same goes for a bakery, they are a public accommodation and are not allowed to discriminate like some think they are entitled to. Now if a gay couple wants something totally outrageous like kissing gay/BJ giving gays on top of the wedding cake then the bakery can refuse that because they do not carry those items and they should not be forced to order them. They can even say that they want some artistic freedom.

    But if a gay or lesbian couple asks for a cake like this:

    Attachment 67182422

    Simple and elegant and out of the regular book of possible wedding cakes. No names, nothing other than any other straight couples buy everyday from that bakery. Why would he be allowed to sell his regular product to someone based on their sexual preference. I do not think they should be allowed too. They should be forced to follow the law that regulates public accommodations.
    Public accommodation laws should be repealed.

    They should be allowed to because it is their property, their labor, their time, and their association that is required for the gay couple to have anything from them.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    You are right, it should not require a bill. Sadly there are anti-social company owners who think they are above the law.

    No business should ever be allowed to discriminate when they are a public accommodation.
    You might want to study the law on this a little more. The Supreme Court made clear in the Hurley case that a state public accommodations law which compels a person in charge of a public accommodation to express or endorse views he does not agree with violates the freedom of speech and is therefore unconstitutional. That case involved a Massachusetts law that made the Boston St. Patrick's Day Parade a public accommodation. The parade's organizers had declined to let an Irish-American homosexual group take part in it, and the group had sued under the state public accommodations law.

    A chapter of the Boy Scouts met the definition of a public accommodation under a New Jersey law, and the chapter had revoked the membership of a scoutmaster upon discovering he was a homosexual. He sued under the law claiming the Scouts had discriminated against him because of his sexual orientation, and here too, the Supreme Court held the law violated a First Amendment right--in this case the right of expressive association.

    I already posted a link here to a law review article on the serious First Amendment issues that far-reaching state public accommodations laws raise. I realize statists don't like the First Amendment. But they should realize it's not going anywhere.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by maxparrish View Post
    nd
    I'll leave you with this. Andrew Sullivan is widely recognized as one of the 'fathers' of the gay marriage movement.


    Andrew Sullivan is a self-described conservative who wasn't even born when the gay rights movement began
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    You might want to study the law on this a little more. The Supreme Court made clear in the Hurley case that a state public accommodations law which compels a person in charge of a public accommodation to express or endorse views he does not agree with violates the freedom of speech and is therefore unconstitutional. That case involved a Massachusetts law that made the Boston St. Patrick's Day Parade a public accommodation. The parade's organizers had declined to let an Irish-American homosexual group take part in it, and the group had sued under the state public accommodations law.

    A chapter of the Boy Scouts met the definition of a public accommodation under a New Jersey law, and the chapter had revoked the membership of a scoutmaster upon discovering he was a homosexual. He sued under the law claiming the Scouts had discriminated against him because of his sexual orientation, and here too, the Supreme Court held the law violated a First Amendment right--in this case the right of expressive association.

    I already posted a link here to a law review article on the serious First Amendment issues that far-reaching state public accommodations laws raise. I realize statists don't like the First Amendment. But they should realize it's not going anywhere.
    And again you bring up cases which are irrelevant because they deal with expressive organizations when the law being discussed is not limited to expressive organization (which have no need for such a law because their expressions are already protected)

    SO maybe you should study the law a little more. Maybe then you'll stop chanting about cases that are irrelevant
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post


    Andrew Sullivan is a self-described conservative who wasn't even born when the gay rights movement began
    Uninformed post.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Are you saying private property owners have no right to ask someone to leave?
    It depends. Is it a private residence or a business open to the public? If it is the latter, then the business owner cannot ask someone to leave for reasons the violate anti-discrimination laws. Ever heard of the lunch-counters in the 50-60's? White Bigot business owners would love to be able to make black people to leave...but the law doesn't allow it. Same with these news attempts at similar actions.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I'm sorry, but the owner of any property has the right to tell anyone to leave.
    Sorry...but you couldn't be more wrong. A bigot cannot refuse to serve someone just because they are black, brown, or gay. The laws of this great country do not allow it. Sorry.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    It depends. Is it a private residence or a business open to the public? If it is the latter, then the business owner cannot ask someone to leave for reasons the violate anti-discrimination laws. Ever heard of the lunch-counters in the 50-60's? White Bigot business owners would love to be able to make black people to leave...but the law doesn't allow it. Same with these news attempts at similar actions.
    And that is why anti-discrimination laws violate property rights. ALL property owners have the right to ask anyone to leave.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Sorry...but you couldn't be more wrong. A bigot cannot refuse to serve someone just because they are black, brown, or gay. The laws of this great country do not allow it. Sorry.
    And that is why anti-discrimination laws violate the thirteen amendment as they amount to involuntary servitude.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    How can someone violate someones else's rights by refusing to trade with them?
    You have right to trade with anyone as you wish. If on the other hand, you wish to operate a business, then government requires you to adhere to a rules, regulations, and standards to do business. There are rules, regulations, and standards that protect the customer in your business that have nothing to do with customer 'rights'.

    You have no right to sell putrid, spoiled food to your customers potentially harming the public health and safety.

    YOU may not want regulations...but we as the public demand it.


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