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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

  1. #1131
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post

    Indiana's Religious Freedom Restoration Act, Explained

    2:10 PM, Mar 27, 2015 • By JOHN MCCORMACKOn Thursday, Indiana governor Mike Pence signed the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA) into law, and some celebrities, politicians, and journalists--including Miley Cyrus, Ashton Kutcher, and Hillary Clinton, just to name a few--are absolutely outraged. They say the law is a license to discriminate against gay people:

    Read more...

    ". . . . Stanford law professor Michael McConnell, a former appellate court judge, tells THE WEEKLY STANDARD in an email: "In the decades that states have had RFRA statutes, no business has been given the right to discriminate against gay customers, or anyone else." So what is the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, and what does it say?
    The first RFRA was a 1993 federal law that was signed into law by Democratic president Bill Clinton. It unanimously passed the House of Representatives, where it was sponsored by then-congressman Chuck Schumer, and sailed through the Senate on a 97-3 vote.
    The law reestablished a balancing test for courts to apply in religious liberty cases (a standard had been used by the Supreme Court for decades). RFRA allows a person's free exercise of religion to be "substantially burdened" by a law only if the law furthers a "compelling governmental interest" in the "least restrictive means of furthering that compelling governmental interest."
    So the law doesn't say that a person making a religious claim will always win. In the years since RFRA has been on the books, sometimes the courts have ruled in favor of religious exemptions, but many other times they haven't. . . . . "
    Just to be clear the federal RFRA and the Indiana RFRA are to separate laws that will be used differently.


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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    Just to be clear the federal RFRA and the Indiana RFRA are to separate laws that will be used differently.
    Application is the same wherever there is an RFRA.

    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Please see #1090.
    Please see the Bible.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Please see the Bible.
    I'm not a Christian and I support SSM, so you'll need a better reference. This is a discussion of law and public policy, and you seem uninformed.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    They were arrested in most cases for trespassing. The Supreme Court did not over-turn trespassing.

    The violation of rights was the refusal of service. Once the service was denied that act was completed. There was no further need to remain. The student's remained to make a point.

    The two acts are separate.
    How can someone violate someones else's rights by refusing to trade with them?

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    I'm not a Christian and I support SSM, so you'll need a better reference. This is a discussion of law and public policy, and you seem uninformed.
    Welp. There just went another irony meter.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Please see #1090.
    So what? It still does not allow public accommodations to discriminate.

    When a church/altar/religious ceremonies candle making company refuses to sell gay wedding candles I can understand and agree that this would not be a public accommodation (as meant by the law) and they should be allowed to refuse to make those candles that they do not have in their normal production line/process.

    A flower shop makes flower arrangements and if they are asked to make a wedding bouquet, nothing special nothing strange or out of the ordinary (other than it being used in a gay wedding ceremony).

    The same goes for a bakery, they are a public accommodation and are not allowed to discriminate like some think they are entitled to. Now if a gay couple wants something totally outrageous like kissing gay/BJ giving gays on top of the wedding cake then the bakery can refuse that because they do not carry those items and they should not be forced to order them. They can even say that they want some artistic freedom.

    But if a gay or lesbian couple asks for a cake like this:

    a100333_fal03_rosecu_xl.jpg

    Simple and elegant and out of the regular book of possible wedding cakes. No names, nothing other than any other straight couples buy everyday from that bakery. Why would he be allowed to sell his regular product to someone based on their sexual preference. I do not think they should be allowed too. They should be forced to follow the law that regulates public accommodations.
    Mock the week quote: "I don't understand why people complain about Kim Jung Un testing nuclear weapons, the more he tests the fewer he will have left".

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Welp. There just went another irony meter.
    Out of ammunition, I see.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  9. #1139
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    There is little doubt that modern libertarians are heavily influenced by oligarchic propaganda and often attempt to conceal their racist bigotry behind the claim that an individual can happily refuse to follow societal norms all the while they benefit from a society which expands as more citizens are allowed to fully participate.
    I can support my case that modern liberals are influenced by socialist ideology which includes anti-private property view points. You can not however support your case that libertarians are influenced by oligarchic propaganda.

  10. #1140
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    So what? It still does not allow public accommodations to discriminate.

    When a church/altar/religious ceremonies candle making company refuses to sell gay wedding candles I can understand and agree that this would not be a public accommodation (as meant by the law) and they should be allowed to refuse to make those candles that they do not have in their normal production line/process.

    A flower shop makes flower arrangements and if they are asked to make a wedding bouquet, nothing special nothing strange or out of the ordinary (other than it being used in a gay wedding ceremony).

    The same goes for a bakery, they are a public accommodation and are not allowed to discriminate like some think they are entitled to. Now if a gay couple wants something totally outrageous like kissing gay/BJ giving gays on top of the wedding cake then the bakery can refuse that because they do not carry those items and they should not be forced to order them. They can even say that they want some artistic freedom.

    But if a gay or lesbian couple asks for a cake like this:

    a100333_fal03_rosecu_xl.jpg

    Simple and elegant and out of the regular book of possible wedding cakes. No names, nothing other than any other straight couples buy everyday from that bakery. Why would he be allowed to sell his regular product to someone based on their sexual preference. I do not think they should be allowed too. They should be forced to follow the law that regulates public accommodations.
    And there is nothing in the RFRA, state or federal, to prevent that.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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