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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

  1. #1121
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    No, he was persecuted for his ACTS, donating money to a Constitutional Amendment to codify forever his personal beliefs and apply them to the entire state. ...
    I agree "he was persecuted". And he was persecuted for BOTH of his publically revealed convictions and his donation to the like minded cause to shape a government policy reflecting those views. Brendon Eich's opinion and donation only became public because, sometime in the four years after the 2008 election, the LA Times several reporters decided to "follow the money" and produced a list of donors from Mozilla (supplied by the State of California database). In 2012, gay activists rediscovered the in information and started hounding Mozilla, asking for his beheading two years BEFORE he was appointed as CEO (that is Mozilla already knew of his donation and appointed him anyway).

    The controversy died, but in 2014, a day after he was appointed by the board to be CEO, OKCupid notified its Firefox users they should switch browsers until Eich was dealt with, and was blunt in their antipathy to Eich: “Those who seek to deny love and instead enforce misery, shame, and frustration are our enemies, and we wish them nothing but failure.”

    By the way, in response to Eichs forced resignation, Sam Yagin (OKCupid co-founder and its CEO) gushed: "It’s a great feeling to see a company take a stand that blends its business interests and its principles and have that stand result in a series of actions that makes the world a better place." (Hilariously, a week later MJones revealed that Sam Yagin had also donated to an anti-gay Utah Republican Congressman that not only wished to ban gay marriage, but also ban adoption by gays, and ban anti-discrimination laws based on sexual orientation - the OKCupid hypocrisy having escaped notice in the press until several days AFTER Eich's forced resignation. Yagin then confessed and pleaded for mercy from the mob he had led).

    Anyway, at the same time, two gay application developers (a couple) also fanned Eich outrage in their blog: "Today we were shocked to read that Brendan Eich has been appointed Mozilla CEO. As a gay couple who were unable to get married in California until recently, we morally cannot support a Foundation that would not only leave someone with hateful views in power, but will give them a promotion and put them in charge of the entire organization.

    As they (and OkCupid) made clear: he had to be persecuted and driven from employment because he held "hateful views" contrary to their views.

    ...what I know is if your CEO supported denying YOU a cherished liberty - say gun ownership if you're a 1st Amendment supporter - you WOULD object and so would customers and suppliers of your company who also cherished that liberty, and a CEO takes a huge risk by taking a position that would strip that liberty from important constituencies. It's nothing more than stating the obvious. The CEO is the public face of the company. When he takes on that role, his personal views on such issues ARE relevant.

    Covered above.... The CEO is unique.
    Poppycock. I have worked the majority of my life for people who support the denial of my liberties. I (I'm white) have worked for bigoted and sexist black city managers, feminist bosses, and affirmative action (hire by your race) mongers. It has been one of the 'privileges' of working for 17 years in a deep blue California City near Berkeley, controlled by and run by a black majority city civil service and City Council, that has bathed me in the views of every anti-liberty (and anti-white) nostrum imaginable.

    None the less, we don't persecute bosses for their private views nor for their private life - regardless of what 'executive' position they hold (at least, not since McCarthy). We don't make them sign gay-marriage loyalty oaths, try to humiliate them publicly, or politic to get them fired for a donation to a state ballot initiative.

    Be reminded, everyone at Mozilla agrees that Eich was completely supportive of employees of every race, sex, and sexual orientation. Nothing in his work conduct evenly remotely suggested the vicious demonization of him as a human being...unless, of course, more than 1/2 of California voters are also "demons". (Continued)

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    (Continued from Above)

    What more can I say - he expressed his views on gay marriage, which would deny the benefits of marriage to lots of his employees/suppliers/customers/users and they objected. I think your problem is you don't care about those rights and can't imagine anyone has a legitimate basis to object, but to those affected it is simply a big deal - marriage is a big deal.

    Oh please, give me a break. First of all nobody condemns people who support traditional marriage. I support traditional marriage - I've been married 23 years, my parents for 55, my inlaws 58. I also support SSM. I also don't think anyone who disagrees with me should be "destroyed" but, again, like it or not, a CEO's views on RIGHTS important to constituents MATTER to those constituents.
    What can you say? You can start by offering a principled view as to whether or not, on a moral basis, the campaign to destroy Brendan Eich was the right thing to do? You can take a stand; either you support campaigns to terminate people's employment because of their privately held political views and donation(s), or you don't. And you can say whether or not the hypocrisy of his critic, Sam Yagin, should be treated with equal punishment - he gave money to a Congressman who worked against 'those constituents' as well, should he not be forced to resign?

    I'll leave you with this. Andrew Sullivan is widely recognized as one of the 'fathers' of the gay marriage movement. A life long gay man, he wrote of and advanced gay marriage in an era (the late 1980s and early 90s) in which his views were not only bashed by anti-gays AND (for different reasons) most male gay opinion leaders. And although Sullivan is solidly liberal on most policy issues, his view on decency is rooted in an older tradition of liberalism (the one shaped by the experience of McCarthyism). He washed his hands of the Eich hate fest:

    Will he now be forced to walk through the streets in shame? Why not the stocks? The whole episode disgusts me – as it should disgust anyone interested in a tolerant and diverse society. If this is the gay rights movement today – hounding our opponents with a fanaticism more like the religious right than anyone else – then count me out. If we are about intimidating the free speech of others, we are no better than the anti-gay bullies who came before us.
    He did not understand that in order to be a CEO of a company, you have to renounce your heresy! There is only one permissible opinion at Mozilla, and all dissidents must be purged! Yep, that’s left-liberal tolerance in a nut-shell.
    The Hounding Of A Heretic, Ctd « The Dish

    And mind you, this termination came from a company that claims it is a company that deeply supports diversity, equality, and the free speech of its employees...
    Last edited by maxparrish; 03-28-15 at 05:51 PM.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Business owners ought not to have to bend to every protected class. Especially ones that go against their personal faith.

    This is a backlash against the actions of unelected Federal judges who over-ride the wishes of the majority of a states voters.
    They are not asked to bend, they are asked to not discriminate and break the law.

    They are a business, period.

    And this has nothing to with unelected federal judges but with constitutional rights and federal laws.
    #StayStrongAppie

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Lol, there are those kids breaking the law again. Guess who owned the property they refused to leave? Hint: It wasn't them. You guys really bought hook line and sinker for the rhetoric sold to you in grade school, didn't you?
    They were arrested in most cases for trespassing. The Supreme Court did not over-turn trespassing.

    The violation of rights was the refusal of service. Once the service was denied that act was completed. There was no further need to remain. The student's remained to make a point.

    The two acts are separate.


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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    This shouldn't require a bill.

    No business should ever be compelled to serve anyone.
    You are right, it should not require a bill. Sadly there are anti-social company owners who think they are above the law.

    No business should ever be allowed to discriminate when they are a public accommodation.
    #StayStrongAppie

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    They are not asked to bend, they are asked to not discriminate and break the law.

    They are a business, period.

    And this has nothing to with unelected federal judges but with constitutional rights and federal laws.
    Please see #1090.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Business owners ought not to have to bend to every protected class. Especially ones that go against their personal faith.

    This is a backlash against the actions of unelected Federal judges who over-ride the wishes of the majority of a states voters.
    Yet religion is a protected class. How Ironic.


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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." --First Amendment to the United States Constitution

  9. #1129
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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Okay, I will.

    That should be legal.

    I certainly don't approve of it, but there is no rational basis whatsover to compel them to give custom.

    It is worth noting that during the time of Jim Crow laws commonly made such discrimination mandatory - that is equally unacceptable intrusion into the property rights of a business owner.


    The free market is a voluntary exchange of goods, services, and property. The government has no business interfering with such voluntary exchanges.
    That should be legal? Ever heard of the law?

    The free market is not an excuse for discrimination. The government has every business banning practices that should not exist in democratic constitutional based society.
    #StayStrongAppie

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Please see #1090.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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