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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Sorry, but I'm pretty sure claims of conscience can't be extended to cake baking.
    Oh, OK, you are using the "No True Scotsman" defense. Nice!

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    There's no cognitive dissonance involved. Your skinhead is free to hate Jews and he's free to avoid participation in their activities but he's not free to decline normal commercial interaction just because of who they are, and the RFRA would not protect him in that case.
    So, people are able to act consistent with their conscience....so long as it's legal. In other words, it depends, which is what I said to begin with.

    And your theory tells us exactly nothing about what a religious person would or would not be compelled to do under the law and with the protections of the RFRA and state equivalents.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by freeRadical View Post
    That's fine. I just won't patronize that store. People discriminate all the time when they decide what stores to patronize. So, it's okay for me not to patronize a store because the owner is gay but it's not okay for the owner to refuse to serve me because I'm gay? That's rank hypocrisy. I think there should be a law that requires mandatory patronage of businesses. It's not fair that people discriminate between businesses.
    How would most businesses know if someone is gay anyway? If I go to dinner with another man, how do you know he's not a friend or co-worker?

    You like it because you think it's only about gays. It could apply to anyone. You could use this law to refuse service to women, blacks, straight people, non-Muslims....You'll change your tune when someone used it to enforce Sharia law in their own place of business.


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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers


    It's GREAT to be me. --- "45% liberal/55% conservative"
    Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggy" until you can find a gun.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    It's a nuanced question that may be too fine-grained for you. The RFRA does not protect those who decline normal commercial interaction. It does protect those whose specific services would require them to participate in or appear to endorse an activity that offends their conscience. The hard cases are those determining where normal commercial interaction stops and infringements of conscience begin.
    It's not too "fined-grained" for me. You make a sweeping statement, I say, no, "it depends" to recognize the nuance, and several posts later you're finally recognizing that of course it DOES depend, and of course the difficulty and UNCERTAINTY is where that line is drawn. The law is intended to move the line towards "conscience" and legal discrimination in some cases - or at least that's what supporters tell us - and in communications with their supporters repeatedly mention protecting religious persons from homosexuals and LGBT. So at least some people believe it will give businesses the right, in some cases, refuse service to gays.

    We don't actually know yet where this will end up, and that's part of the problem and why some groups oppose the law.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    Lol, there are those kids breaking the law again. Guess who owned the property they refused to leave? Hint: It wasn't them. You guys really bought hook line and sinker for the rhetoric sold to you in grade school, didn't you?

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    I understand what you're saying...

    But who changed the definition?

    http://www.marketfaith.org/are-chris...nd-homophobes/
    We don't need to do this again. Here's how your article starts:

    When Chick-fil-a president Dan Cathy said in public that he stands for Christian values and that his company is built on those values, the LGBT community and their supporters went nuts.
    Not quite true. If he personally "stood for Christian values' no one cares. They do care when his foundation spends millions supporting groups dedicated to banning or preventing SSM. The former is a belief on how best to live his life (like him I'm also still married to my first wife), the latter is an effort to enforce his beliefs on the rest of the country. Apples and dump trucks.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    But individual church members are.
    Yes....individual church members are free to donate what they want....but here the Mormon church stepped over the lines....financing in large part the propaganda campaign behind prop 8. They also were caught on video campaigning for the proposition which is illegal. On top of that...most of the donations from individual members were given in a way that was illegal as well. The Mormon church actually had members come into meeting in which they were told that the "church" felt that they could donate a certain amount to the campaign. Intense pressure was put on Mormon members to contribute. It wasn't typical "individual" donations.

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    Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Lol, there are those kids breaking the law again. Guess who owned the property they refused to leave? Hint: It wasn't them. You guys really bought hook line and sinker for the rhetoric sold to you in grade school, didn't you?
    Breaking a law later found to be unconstitutional by the Supreme Court of the United States and subsequently protected against with additional legislation?
    "We all of us know down here that politics is a tough game. And I don't think there's any point in being Irish if you don't know that the world is going to break your heart eventually."-Daniel Patrick Moynihan, December 5, 1963

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Penny-ante nitpicking. Inconsequential.
    Of course....I suspected as much from you. You cry and whine about "links" and then when presented with the facts you simply disregard and spin. I would have been surprised if you had reacted otherwise. I know your ilk all too well. Carry on.

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