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Thread: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    On this mini exchange, you just told me that the law would prohibit me from acting against on my conscience to deny services to the devil Jews in my community. Now you're telling me the law allows me to act consistent with my conscience. You'll need to take a side.

    And on the broader question, you've also quoted legal experts who say there isn't any instance of the RFRA allowing discrimination against LGBT. But clearly some people's consciences demand they DO discriminate. Again, pick a side. This law either does or does not give Christians the right to act consistent with the conscience and deny services to gays. Which is it?
    Neither the federal RFRA nor any SCOTUS decision extends to considering anyone of any belief to be "the devil." That's already out of bounds.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    People are not required to engage in acts which violate their consciences.
    because no one's conscience is violated by paying taxes
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I've been asked to leave just for being legaly armed and that's a spicificaly protected right while sexuality is not, so why should gays have special privileges?
    were you born legally armed? do you find "legally armed" to be a status that you can change if you want to?

    please. i don't give a **** about your gun. if you want to wear it into the bath tub, that's fine by me. but don't compare that with kicking gays or blacks out of a restaurant. there's nothing that they can just leave in the trunk if some asshole at a restaurant tries to turn them away.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Individual Mormons may have spent millions, as is their right, but the Mormon church as an institution spent only $180,000.
    Therein lies the deception and BS that the Mormon church engaged in. There are documents and recordings that demonstrate the actions of the Mormon church and the efforts that they underwent to hide their illegal activities.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    There is nothing in the law that applies specifically to christians or any specific group. The law applies to atheists just as it applies to the religious.

    And there is nothing bigoted about prohibiting acts which harm commerce. It is a legitimate function of govt. What you want is "special rights" for christians which is a reprehensible form of theocratic bigotry.
    The anti-discrimination law affects mostly Christians when we're talking about homosexuals and in particular same sex marriage. And forcing commerce is not a legitimate function of government unless one favors a government of tyranny. The real bigots in this circumstance is the homosexual couples who just can't learn to live and let live.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    People are not required to engage in acts which violate their consciences. And in the case of businesses that's pretty narrowly drawn, per the Hobby Lobby decision. As for the baker, I suspect he'd have to bake the cake but I doubt he could be compelled to put two grooms on top.
    It depends. You're I assume deliberately missing the point.

    You mention the baker. You have no idea what his conscience says about baking a cake versus baking a cake AND putting two grooms on top, but conclude that the law cannot require him to act contrary to his conscience AND that "he'd have to bake the cake." Both can't be true. Again, pick a side, any side.

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Not quite true:

    The options are make the sale, pay the fine, quit the business, or not offer the goods and services for which they have a specific problem. This is demonstrated by Masterpiece Cakes in Colorado. They have opted not to offer wedding cakes as part of their business model. Same with "The Hitching Post" in Idaho, the used to offer both religious and civil (non-religious) weddings. Because of the city ordinance they changed their business model and eliminated the option of a civil only ceremony. Since both owners are members of the clergy (an important distinction) and only perform religious weddings, even though they operate a for profit business, they are not required to perform non-religious weddings outside their faith.


    >>>>
    Which is no different than what I said. The bakery was forced out of one segment of business. Bigotry is alive and well in America and is becoming institutionalized in the law

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Blemonds View Post
    The anti-discrimination law affects mostly Christians when we're talking about homosexuals and in particular same sex marriage. And forcing commerce is not a legitimate function of government unless one favors a government of tyranny. The real bigots in this circumstance is the homosexual couples who just can't learn to live and let live.
    No one is forced into commerce by civil rights laws. The real bigots are the right wing christians who insist on being granted special rights.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Anti-discrimination laws would require businesses open to the public to effectively declare, "We serve everyone."

    Jim Crow laws required or allowed businesses to declare, "Whites Only."
    It takes a curious detachment from reality to equate those two laws.
    One was tyranny aimed at the consumer, the new one is tyranny aimed at the merchant. Tyranny is tyranny

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    Re: Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    This may come as a shock to people on the East Coast, but there are a lot of religious conservatives in Flyoverland.
    As a side note, i think one of the major Pentecostal denominations is headquartered in Indiana, instead of Mississippi.

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