Indiana's Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers

**Fiddytree** · 03-28-15, 01:44 AM

Of course I do, Henrin. As a disabled person, I know how vital it is that such protections exist. It's not lost on me that it has only been 25 years for people like me, both seen and unseen disabilities, who have been protected.

A society has many components, but a substantial portion of our society revolves around private enterprises open to public commerce. A libertarian sees an individual transaction located in a single store, which happens to be denied on the part of a person exercising their "right" to determine who shall get his/her labor. However, that denied citizen sees this as a series of individual transactions which culminate in a large portion of their lives. Denied in a business which provides birthday cards, denied in a business which provides coffee, denied from a business which provides the groceries, denied...denied...denied. His rejection is multiplied time and time again, and his fellow citizens know his denial and the reasons with which it happens. This in turn affects how the citizens not denied view him, reinforcing the already negative views which had been pushed onto his person.

The libertarian presumes that men are rational creatures, willing to use cost/benefit analysis. This cost/benefit analysis incentivizes business to cater to the needs of substantial markets, thus, obviously the minority's interests will be secured. But men are not rational creatures. They hold their prejudices and ensure they stick. If one is a member of a group which is largely despised, they will not be treated well in a system in which a de jure non-aggression principle is adhered to.

Through this lever is the flood to which the individual becomes the scurge of his society rather than a valued member of it.

To the man who is part of a non-offending group, he has freedom and liberty. He can reasonably do as he so chooses and by some manner of virtue of his own gifts, have the opportunity to live a decently healthy and happy life. The person who is part of an offending group, on the other hand, can not claim the same.

Libertarianism is the comfort food for the solipsistic unoffending bourgeois democrat.

**chromium** · 03-28-15, 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by Helix

the state sanctioning kicking gay people out of a restaurant solely because they are gay is a mockery of humanity.

not to mention if i were in such a state i would never pay taxes to enable my own oppression!

i would find any way around it possible, sales tax, income, you name it

**chromium** · 03-28-15, 01:59 AM

Originally Posted by matchlight

Beats hell out of me. Anyone who respects the rule of law and the Constitution of the U.S. is part of the "states' rights" crowd. The Tenth Amendment is not just decoration, but an important part of the Constitution. And anyone who does not know what the term "federalism" means might want to learn about it. It is one of several bulwarks against abuse of power designed into the structure of the Constitution. The Supreme Court commented on this in New York v. United States, a Tenth Amendment decision from 1990.

Your remark about the rights of counties and cities is at least good for a laugh. States are sovereigns (there's that Tenth Amendment again, which collectivists hate so much) and as such have inherent power to make laws and policies. The Court has referred to this as the "police (as in "policy," not the cops) power." Counties and cities are creatures of their states, and as such they have no inherent powers at all. They have only those powers the states saw fit to give them through enabling laws. States in some cases have given them quite a lot of autonomy, but the state can also take it away.

The fed can take away state "autonomy" just as easily - see: civil war

States have no rights and deserve even less. Indiana is a prime example of why

**Henrin** · 03-28-15, 02:03 AM

Originally Posted by chromium

not to mention if i were in such a state i would never pay taxes to enable my own oppression!

i would find any way around it possible, sales tax, income, you name it

What oppression?

**chromium** · 03-28-15, 02:08 AM

...anyone else have something to add?

**Henrin** · 03-28-15, 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by chromium

...anyone else have something to add?

So...you're not oppressed by people refusing to trade with you. Good to know.

**chromium** · 03-28-15, 02:10 AM

anyone at all?

**Henrin** · 03-28-15, 02:16 AM

Originally Posted by chromium

anyone at all?

Hey, I hear it is fun to make up stuff and run away when challenged on it.

**Helix** · 03-28-15, 02:32 AM

Originally Posted by Henrin

So was anyone harmed by being denied service? If not, what is the grounds for government action?

The point of my earlier post was that when someone says no the answer is no and you're supposed to walk away. People don't like to just deal with such realities though so they ignore consent and they use force to get their way. All I hear is screw relying on consent to trade with others because we have force and we aren't scared to use it. You're NOT harmed because of the reason someone refuses to trade with you, so why should the reason matter? It shouldn't logically speaking, but no we can't have people not agreeing with us, so **** them they will obey our opinions. It emotional idiotic nonsense.

yeah, like no one is harmed by getting kicked out of a restaurant because they are homosexual or black.

**Henrin** · 03-28-15, 02:34 AM

Originally Posted by Helix

yeah, like no one is harmed by getting kicked out of a restaurant because they are homosexual or black.

What harm came to them by being kicked out of a restaurant?

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