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Thread: House effort would completely dismantle the Patriot Act.

  1. #11
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    Re: House effort would completely dismantle the Patriot Act.

    Quote Originally Posted by iacardsfan View Post
    The Patriot act authorizes the unconstitutional invasion of the right to privacy, totally abridges any form of due process,
    It doesn't do either of those things.

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    Re: House effort would completely dismantle the Patriot Act.

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    Does the constitution define a right to privacy? If so, I missed it.
    The question of whether the Constitution protects privacy in ways not expressly provided in the Bill of Rights is controversial. Many originalists, including most famously Judge Robert Bork in his ill-fated Supreme Court confirmation hearings, have argued that no such general right of privacy exists.

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    Re: House effort would completely dismantle the Patriot Act.

    The concept sounds amazing. I am sure they can screw it up, but the concept is great.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: House effort would completely dismantle the Patriot Act.

    As I said in the other thread, I disagree with this entirely as I disagree with every suggestion that people make of using a hatchet when a scapel would be more reasonable. When even the bills biggest critic at the time of it's passing acknowledged that 90% of the massive piece of legislation was "sound" that should be a clear indication that the entire thing is not necessarily a problem.

    We should not toss our intelligence back into the 1960's, returning to a situation with vast amounts of grey area as it relates to the massive amount of modern communications technology. Nor should we foolishly think that we can gut the vast amount of legitimately positive law within PATRIOT to only repass it in new legislation. We are in a far more bitterly partisan time then we were at the time of PATRIOT's passing. Combine that with the natural stigma that ANYTHING related to PATRIOT...being brought back up to a vote on the flooor...will have and it's completely unrealistic and unbelievable to think that they'd simply "pass a new law with the 'good' things".

    Indeed, if that was the intent, it would be far more intelligent and efficient to simply remove the problematic portions of PATRIOT and let the majority of useful things stay, as opposed to tossing the baby out with the bathwater and then taking the time, energy, and money necessary to go through the process of adding it all back.

    Continue what our various checks and balances have already been properly doing, and continue to prune out and remove the troublesome parts as we move farther and farther from the period of heightened security that brought PATRIOT to bear.

    Unless one is suggesting to simultaneously repeal and then try and "put the good parts back" of the rest of our survelliance law, such as the Foriegn Intelligence Survelliance Act or Title III of the Omnibus Safe Street sand Crime Control Act of 1968, it is absolutely asinine to outright repeal PATRIOT.

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    Re: House effort would completely dismantle the Patriot Act.

    Quote Originally Posted by iacardsfan View Post
    Both the 3rd and the 4th Amendments certainly creates a right to privacy.
    Hard to say. They are pretty specific as to what sorts of privacy they define. They leave all the rest of privacy issues alone so you interpret it to mean that other forms of privacy are protected by default simply because the constitution mentions some privacy issues. One could also interpret it to mean that no other forms of privacy are specifically protected. You can interpret it in opposing ways. It doesn't seem very clear to me.

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    Re: House effort would completely dismantle the Patriot Act.

    Quote Originally Posted by face, your View Post
    It doesn't do either of those things.
    Metadata collection, email collection, the illegal detention of person for indefinite time without formal charges, wiretapping and more? You're right, totally legal.
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals."
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