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Thread: Ted Cruz going on Obamacare

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    Re: Ted Cruz going on Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Dovkan View Post
    No one is being ordered to do anything, that is like saying the government is forcing us to follow the speed limit, or something as preposterous as that.
    a mandate is an official order.... in this particular case, given by the federal government.

    force includes coercion or compulsion.... coercion and compulsion are part and parcel of the individual mandate.

    sorry man, your position is untenable.... rethink it.

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    Re: Ted Cruz going on Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Dovkan View Post
    No one is being ordered to do anything, that is like saying the government is forcing us to follow the speed limit, or something as preposterous as that.
    And if a politician vows to eliminate the speed limit he is not a hypocrite if he continues to follow the speed limit law while it is in effect

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    Re: Ted Cruz going on Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by SenorXm/Sirius View Post
    COBRA and private HI has nothing to do with ACA. Both been around long before ACA. You seem to be saying that because all HI policies now must cover pre-existing conditions they are all ACA policies? Nope.
    Because I've never dealt with cobra, how long would it lasts? I see some saying 36 months, other 18. Also, is he elligible since his wife was not terminated, but quit, her job?

    As to the private plans, yes,..those are still impacted by the ACC. Whether it's a private plan or state exchange, Cruz is still being "impacted" and "effected" and given "benefits" of the ACA. If the mere notion of gaining a benefit compared to no insurance from ACA somehow makes him a hypocrite, than thst applies to him purchasing a private plan as well

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    Re: Ted Cruz going on Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    a mandate is an official order.... in this particular case, given by the federal government.

    force includes coercion or compulsion.... coercion and compulsion are part and parcel of the individual mandate.

    sorry man, your position is untenable.... rethink it.
    I am curious. The mandate is for people to have insurance of a certain quality. Is there actually any mandate that states you must get it from an exchange or a particular place?

    Could he have gotten insurance privately?

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    Re: Ted Cruz going on Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    I am curious. The mandate is for people to have insurance of a certain quality. Is there actually any mandate that states you must get it from an exchange or a particular place?

    Could he have gotten insurance privately?
    the mandate only states you have to have a policy that qualifies.... it doesn't force anyone to get that policy from anywhere.

    yes, he can get a private insurance policy.. .but he would pay 100% of the premiums for that policy.. he would have to forgo his employer contribution ( which is 75%).

    the same is true for any other employee in the country.. they don't have to go through their employer to get health insurance... they are free to purchase their own plan and pay 100% of the cost.
    I doubt anyone here will fault any other employee on the planet for taking the employer provided health insurance benefits if it's available to them... Cruz is obviously special in this regard.

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    Re: Ted Cruz going on Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by SenorXm/Sirius View Post
    60% of all personal bankruptcies are caused by medical expenses and costs. So no, there really isn't a lot of regulations to solve those difficulties. Unless of course you are counting going bankrupt as one of those options.
    That only means that the regulation we have allows this outcome. It says nothing about the fact that there are many ways to regulate the thing. It doesn't even say that the way it has been is inefficient.

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    Re: Ted Cruz going on Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    If the mere notion of gaining a benefit compared to no insurance from ACA somehow makes him a hypocrite, than thst applies to him purchasing a private plan as well
    After thinking about it, I've come to the conclusion that it's not so much hypocrisy as it is dishonesty

    For some time, Cruz and the right have been loudly whining about how terrible it is that millions of americans have lost their plan and been "forced" to buy coverage in an exchange. Now that he has lost his plan, Cruz (whose wealth and position gives him as more options than most) has decided to buy a plan on the exchange because it the best option available to him

    Why is it that when others choose the best option, they are being "forced" to do that, but when Cruz makes such a choice, he's doing the smart thing?

    IOW, his choice illuminates the fact that his rhetoric about being "forced" to buy on the exchange is nothing but a lie. The truth is, for millions of americans, the exchange is best available option because of the benefits it provides. The people buying coverage there are not victims of coercion; They are recipients of a valuable benefit.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Ted Cruz going on Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    After thinking about it, I've come to the conclusion that it's not so much hypocrisy as it is dishonesty

    For some time, Cruz and the right have been loudly whining about how terrible it is that millions of americans have lost their plan and been "forced" to buy coverage in an exchange. Now that he has lost his plan, Cruz (whose wealth and position gives him as more options than most) has decided to buy a plan on the exchange because it the best option available to him

    Why is it that when others choose the best option, they are being "forced" to do that, but when Cruz makes such a choice, he's doing the smart thing?

    IOW, his choice illuminates the fact that his rhetoric about being "forced" to buy on the exchange is nothing but a lie. The truth is, for millions of americans, the exchange is best available option because of the benefits it provides. The people buying coverage there are not victims of coercion; They are recipients of a valuable benefit.
    you're building a strawman here.
    nobody has argued it's not the best option for other people to take advantage of..... nobody has argued they are not doing the smart thing.
    most of the people buying into the exchanges are doing the only thing they can do.. and are mandated to do.... and nobody here is taking any of them to task over doing as much.

    but the existence of the individual mandate pretty much renders your argument of " they're not being forced/coerced" to be incorrect on the merits.

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    Re: Ted Cruz going on Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    "minimal" is relative.... but it's still a punishment for not living up to what you government had ordered you to do.

    equivocate all you like, but there's no getting around the basic fact that your federal government has ordered you to purchase a commercial product.
    But if the government doesn't "order" you to purchase health insurance, it's simply a license to freeload, and those who choose to go without health insurance are offloading their catastrophic health care policy onto you and me. If baffles me that conservatives now recognize this right to freeload as something sacred. They used to know better, but I guess since the ACA has a mandate, and the ACA is the devil ===> mandates violate some fundamental freedom to freeload off those with insurance.

    And FWIW, it's in part a rhetorical distinction between a mandate to buy something and a fine if you don't, but I actually see the distinction as fairly significant. You don't in fact have to purchase insurance, but if you want to freeload, society has every 'right' and I'd argue a fiscal obligation to put a price on freeloading. If a freeloading uninsured person gets into a bad car wreck, the rest of us will pick up his $100,000 hospital bill. If he wants the 'right' to gamble, keep the premium savings, and shift his losses/costs to us if he loses his bet that he'll stay healthy, we have a 'right' to make him pay for that privilege - put a cost on that bet.

    As an aside, the real problem with the mandate, IMO, is that it does require a fairly comprehensive policy. I think that's the right choice, but recognize that there is a good argument against comprehensive insurance in favor of catastrophic plans and MSAs or something. So, OK, if a conservative wants to propose that, and with it some way for the poor to afford the copayments up to the floor of the catastrophic plan, that would be fine. But for anything to actually work, we're going to have to cover everyone or mandate coverage.

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    Re: Ted Cruz going on Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    you're building a strawman here.
    nobody has argued it's not the best option for other people to take advantage of..... nobody has argued they are not doing the smart thing.
    most of the people buying into the exchanges are doing the only thing they can do.. and are mandated to do.... and nobody here is taking any of them to task over doing as much.

    but the existence of the individual mandate pretty much renders your argument of " they're not being forced/coerced" to be incorrect on the merits.
    No one is mandated to buy a plan on an exchange so they are not being forced or coerced to do so.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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