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Thread: Breaking News Airbus plane crashes in Southern France

  1. #31
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    Re: Breaking News Airbus plane crashes in Southern France

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I actually had thought of decompression myself when I first saw it on the news. If the pilots responded improperly by commanding a descent and then going for their oxygen masks, they could have passed out and have been unable to recover from the dive. It does require both pilots to make several simultaneous mistakes, though. (failure to follow decompression procedure, and also commanding a descent without giving the autopilot an altitude target to stop at) It would explain the lack of a mayday, at least.

    The descent rate seems too steady for any kind of major damage to the aircraft. If they had the control to descend at a constant rate... why didn't they stop?

    Dual engine flameout, while incredibly rare, would explain it... but not the lack of radio contact. You'd also expect some attempt to turn to more favorable terrain.
    What about icing? I saw the news reports saying weather wasn't really a consideration but the A320 has had icing issues in prior disasters, where the sensors iced over and provided incorrect information into the cockpit. But then again they were at cruising speed already.... icing I thought occurs on ascent and descent. Puzzling.
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  2. #32
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    Re: Breaking News Airbus plane crashes in Southern France

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Uhh, the post I was responding to suggested it could be a bomb.

    Yes, it could be terrorism but right now there is absolutely no evidence pointing to such that I am aware of.
    The only evidence is the lack of another explanation for the strange behavior of a plane determinedly flying into a mountain. I saw a pilot on CNN say it must have been a hijacking because no pilot would do that unless it was intentional.

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    Re: Breaking News Airbus plane crashes in Southern France

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    If it were a controlled descent they would have flown away from the Mountains not towards them.
    Being under control still means you can fly into terrain. In aviation we call that "CFIT." Google it.

    Airbus has taken the pilot out of the equation more than any other large Aircraft manufacturer.

    To the point where it led to a perfectly good Airbus 330 being flown into a Ocean with confused pilots trying to figure out what was happening. ( Air France 447 )
    Your characterization of AF447 isn't remotely accurate.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Breaking News Airbus plane crashes in Southern France

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Decompression is a reason to descend, but not that low. Such a descent is not automatic, the command to descend must be initiated by the pilots.
    A decent due to decompression would be much much faster also. This appears to be a deliberate act to me. Someone flew the plane into a mountain.

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    Re: Breaking News Airbus plane crashes in Southern France

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    What about icing? I saw the news reports saying weather wasn't really a consideration but the A320 has had icing issues in prior disasters, where the sensors iced over and provided incorrect information into the cockpit. But then again they were at cruising speed already.... icing I thought occurs on ascent and descent. Puzzling.
    Icing can occur any time the conditions allow. You just need a lot of moisture and cold temperatures. It happens less often at cruising altitudes because it's too cold. The air just doesn't hold much moisture at that temperature. High altitude icing is usually associated with thunderstorms, as those will build up vertically enough to carry moisture to those altitudes. Airliners also have pretty good anti-icing systems, so it takes a lot of ice accumulation to bring one down during cruise. Typically, ice hazards for a jet are going to be during takeoff, climbout, approach, or landing.

    Doesn't seem likely, but then again nothing else really does yet either.

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The only evidence is the lack of another explanation for the strange behavior of a plane determinedly flying into a mountain. I saw a pilot on CNN say it must have been a hijacking because no pilot would do that unless it was intentional.
    Controlled Flight Into Terrain happens often enough in aviation that we have a term for it. CFIT doesn't imply intent. It's usually the pilot not really being aware of his surroundings. Airliners have pretty good equipment designed at preventing this situation, Ground Proximity Warning Systems are meant to alert the pilot to impending terrain problems via a radar altimeter (measures height above the surface) and a terrain database for a "look ahead" capability. However, such systems are not fool proof and diving into rapidly rising terrain could mean the system activates too late.

    I'm certainly not ruling out terrorism/hijacking, but there are absolutely other possibilities.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Breaking News Airbus plane crashes in Southern France

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    A decent due to decompression would be much much faster also. This appears to be a deliberate act to me. Someone flew the plane into a mountain.
    Not necessarily. The descent rate was fairly rapid, and once the pilots have their oxygen masks on there's not really a critical need to descend any faster. Especially once you've gotten yourself below 20,000 feet or so, you're not putting anyone at risk by slowing down the descent any more. Passengers too slow to get their masks on may have passed out, but they're not going to die or get brain damage or anything.

    Seriously, though, google "CFIT."
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Breaking News Airbus plane crashes in Southern France

    I hope that the black box will provide clues. Meanwhile, have there been any reports of passengers texting loved ones or making contact with others in some way?

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    Re: Breaking News Airbus plane crashes in Southern France

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    I hope that the black box will provide clues. Meanwhile, have there been any reports of passengers texting loved ones or making contact with others in some way?
    I doubt cell phone reception would have made this possible.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Breaking News Airbus plane crashes in Southern France

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Being under control still means you can fly into terrain. In aviation we call that "CFIT." Google it.



    Your characterization of AF447 isn't remotely accurate.
    There's " terrain " and then there's a Mountain range.

    Seems to me a controlled descent would mean some attempt to avoid crashing head on into a Mountain range.

    And AF447 went down due to pilot error.

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    Re: Breaking News Airbus plane crashes in Southern France

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    There's " terrain " and then there's a Mountain range.

    Seems to me a controlled descent would mean some attempt to avoid crashing head on into a Mountain range.
    There may well have been a last-second attempt to avoid a crash after the GPWS activated. Such a thing wouldn't show up on the radar track.

    Mountain ranges make CFIT more likely, not less.


    And AF447 went down due to pilot error.
    A radically different characterization than before. Also oversimplified. AF447 was icing conditions causing a malfunction of the airspeed indicators, causing the autopilot to disconnect and erroneous, conflicting data to be presented to the pilots. The pilots pitched the aircraft up and caused an aerodynamic stall, which they were unable to recover from.
    Last edited by Deuce; 03-24-15 at 06:03 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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