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Thread: Out of Yemen, U.S. is Hobbled in Terror Fight

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    Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Heya Matchlight. Its more of a problem than BO and his team is letting on. Parties are split 3 ways and with the supporters of Selah in the mix.



    WASHINGTON (AP) — Once hailed by President Barack Obama as a model for fighting extremism, the U.S. counterterrorism strategy in Yemen has all but collapsed as the country descends into chaos, according to U.S. and Yemeni officials. Operations against militants have been scaled back dramatically amid the fall of the American-backed government and the evacuation of U.S. personnel. What had been consistent pressure on Yemen's dangerous al-Qaida affiliate has been eased, the officials say, and a safe haven exists for the development of an offshoot of the Islamic State group.

    It's a swift and striking transformation for an anti-terror campaign Obama heralded just six months ago as the template for efforts to fight the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria. The shift has left Obama open to criticism that he failed to anticipate the risks of a light footprint strategy that aims to put fragile governments and beleaguered local security forces, not the U.S. military, at the forefront.

    "Certainly, repositioning our forces out of Yemen will make our fight against AQAP more difficult. There is no question about that," Pentagon spokesman Col. Steve Warren said Tuesday. Former CIA director Michael Hayden told Congress that U.S. intelligence relationships in Yemen "will erode over time because of our lack of physical presence in the county.".....snip~

    US counterterrorism strategy in Yemen collapses amid chaos - AP News 3/24/2015 12:41 PM
    This looks like another example of the more general problem of how to fight jihadists who shelter in nations where no government has full control. Libya is like that. So is Somalia. So is Pakistan. And obviously so are Syria and Iraq. At one time a few hundred or even a few thousand lightly armed fanatics running around butchering people in some foreign hellhole, savage and evil as they were, did not pose any threat to our security. But with jet travel and instant communications, as we saw on 9/11, it doesn't take many of these bastards to do us a lot of harm.

    We might be able to learn something from the strategy the British used in India to put an end to the Thugs. There were thousands of them, no one knew just who or where they were, or how they were organized, and for centuries they had secretly been murdering people--hundreds of thousands of them--in the name of their god. But a few were caught, and threatened with hanging if they did not inform on others. And the ones they informed on were then given the same choice. Some Muslim jihadists may not be afraid to die, but I am sure that's not true of all of them. The Japanese during WWII were even more fanatic than Muslim jihadists, and yet after a while, not enough volunteers could be found to fill the need for kamikaze missions.

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    Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

    Quote Originally Posted by Travis007 View Post
    Obama is the best friend a terrorist ever had..

    if he only treated terror harboring countries with the hatred he has for the Jews and Israel
    It's the joos fault we're in the mess to start with, since they took down the WTC.
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    Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I'd just make a couple of points:

    1. We clearly have different takes on similar issues - that's to be expected.

    2. I don't believe for a minute that Carter orchestrated the ouster of the Shah of Iran and the rise of the Ayatollahs there. I'd say it's the exact opposite. The Shah was a friend of the US, strongly supported by the US, and if I'm not mistaken, his family came to the US after their ouster. Carter did not orchestrate the revolution taking over the US embassy in Tehran and the hostage crisis lasting more than a year and effectively ending his Presidency.

    3. The British have an old saying "in for a penny, in for a pound" - effectively, that means never do anything half assed. Either get in and mean what you say to the end or don't get in. Ask many of the peoples in the Middle East or perhaps even around the world and they'll tell you that they no longer feel that America, under Obama, is a friend they can trust and rely upon. That is toxic when it comes to getting countries to support serious joint action.


    The take over of the Embassy was because the Shah was given sanctuary by Carter.
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    Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    This looks like another example of the more general problem of how to fight jihadists who shelter in nations where no government has full control. Libya is like that. So is Somalia. So is Pakistan. And obviously so are Syria and Iraq. At one time a few hundred or even a few thousand lightly armed fanatics running around butchering people in some foreign hellhole, savage and evil as they were, did not pose any threat to our security. But with jet travel and instant communications, as we saw on 9/11, it doesn't take many of these bastards to do us a lot of harm.

    We might be able to learn something from the strategy the British used in India to put an end to the Thugs. There were thousands of them, no one knew just who or where they were, or how they were organized, and for centuries they had secretly been murdering people--hundreds of thousands of them--in the name of their god. But a few were caught, and threatened with hanging if they did not inform on others. And the ones they informed on were then given the same choice. Some Muslim jihadists may not be afraid to die, but I am sure that's not true of all of them. The Japanese during WWII were even more fanatic than Muslim jihadists, and yet after a while, not enough volunteers could be found to fill the need for kamikaze missions.


    We are dealing with more than just Jihadists.....we are dealing with former generals and colonels that have years of experience in conventional warfare. Some are from Saddam Hussein's Army and forces. Others are coming from other places. Their hackers are sophisticated enough to keep getting around others cyber security. Same with AQ and their Intel Officers coming in. Taliban from Both Pakistan and Afghanistan.


    Now we have an Iranian Quds force Officer running things inside Iraq with the Shia.....and here Iran turns BO's Template into nothing more than Tic Tac Toe. While in negotiation with the Nuke talks.

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    Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    The US didn't overthrow the Shah, it overthrew a constitutional monarch and installed the Shah into power in order to ensure a pro-west leader that would continue to keep Iranian oil open to US companies.
    https://www.cia.gov/library/center-f...article10.html




    I agree with that saying, but I don't think it applies to the fact that every action should be all in to get the best outcome possible. To ensure that Libya had a pro-west regime does that mean we should go as far to land troops in that country if it ensures that we get the regime we want? Should we of kept troops in Iraq for the foreseeable future irregardless of whether Iraqi's want us and are willing to provide soldiers immunity from prosecution? What happens when the first soldier is prosecuted by Iraqi law? We sure as hell won't hand him over, what's the result of that?

    If a situation requires decisive actions and the stakes are high enough you should go all in, but our problems stem from the fact that the stakes are always sky high and require an all in mentality.
    With respect to Iran, the Shah and his predecessors had been in place for decades before the Ayatollahs took over and would have remained in power with the support of the US had the US been able to convince the Shah to alter his rule - similar situation to Mubarak in Egypt.

    With respect to Iraq, I'll simply say that the US left troops in South Korea and South Korea is vibrant and successful both economically and democratically. The US abandoned Vietnam and it's basically a backwater to this day. The US has left troops on site in virtually every country where it has conducted military operations and has troops all over the world. Leaving a force in Iraq would have been the only logical thing to do as current events show. It's debatable whether or not it could be done or simply that Obama, as per a campaign promise, didn't want it done. Fact remains, it's been a disaster and countries such as my own are now back into Iraq to fight a bigger problem.
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    Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    The take over of the Embassy was because the Shah was given sanctuary by Carter.
    OK, but it wasn't because the US was trying to overthrow the Shah, which was my original point.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    OK, but it wasn't because the US was trying to overthrow the Shah, which was my original point.
    No absolutely not. The point we are both countering is that Carter was responsible for the overthrow of Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi, in fact in 1979 Carter was on record as supporting him as had presidents since FDR.

    He was the Saddam Hussein of his day, peace, order and strong oil prices through cruelty and torture
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    Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    We are dealing with more than just Jihadists.....we are dealing with former generals and colonels that have years of experience in conventional warfare. Some are from Saddam Hussein's Army and forces. Others are coming from other places. Their hackers are sophisticated enough to keep getting around others cyber security. Same with AQ and their Intel Officers coming in. Taliban from Both Pakistan and Afghanistan.


    Now we have an Iranian Quds force Officer running things inside Iraq with the Shia.....and here Iran turns BO's Template into nothing more than Tic Tac Toe. While in negotiation with the Nuke talks.
    Some time I'll talk about a little covert war President Bush waged involving senior Al Qods force leaders that scared hell out of the regime in Tehran. Just say we know how to deal with mutts like them.

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    Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Right, because America's steady decline is all Obama's fault, lol.
    ... I never said that ...

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    Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    With respect to Iran, the Shah and his predecessors had been in place for decades before the Ayatollahs took over and would have remained in power with the support of the US had the US been able to convince the Shah to alter his rule - similar situation to Mubarak in Egypt.
    The US backed the Shah in a complete takeover of the government. In the 1950's Iran was ruled by a constitutional monarchy. The Parliament voted to nationalize the oil industry in Iran and with US and British backing the Shah staged a coup and overthrew the government and instituted a dictatorship. That was an action that fueled arab nationalism and distrust of the west. Due to economic concerns the US set the stage for a dictator that would eventually be overthrown by an extreme arab nationalist theocracy.

    Is there a possibility that the Iranian revolution could of happened without US interference? That's always a possibility, but coup and takeover of the Shah as well as the view that the Shah was a puppet of the west definitely played a part in motivating the revolution.

    With respect to Iraq, I'll simply say that the US left troops in South Korea and South Korea is vibrant and successful both economically and democratically. The US abandoned Vietnam and it's basically a backwater to this day. The US has left troops on site in virtually every country where it has conducted military operations and has troops all over the world. Leaving a force in Iraq would have been the only logical thing to do as current events show. It's debatable whether or not it could be done or simply that Obama, as per a campaign promise, didn't want it done. Fact remains, it's been a disaster and countries such as my own are now back into Iraq to fight a bigger problem.
    I want to point out that the troops left in South Korea were to protect South Korea from a foreign invasion. Those troops were not seen as occupiers and they weren't under threat by the same civilian population that they were there to protect. The Iraqi situation was a democratically elected government was calling for the removal of our troops. While the Prime Minister had the power to allow the US to extend troops involvement in the country any sort of immunity from prosecution would of required a vote in Parliament...and the votes weren't there.

    I think the disaster was the initial invasion of Iraq in the first place. Hindsight is 20/20 but it was a very large undertaking and has completely changed the dynamics of the middle east in a lot of different ways.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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