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Thread: Out of Yemen, U.S. is Hobbled in Terror Fight

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    Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    It's obviously not desirable no longer to have 125 members of the special forces training the forces of Yemen's nominal government to fight jihadists. But I don't see how they could have been gathering intelligence. And Djibouti is still available as a drone base, as are U.S. ships. If the U.S. wanted to kill a jihadist in Shabwa province, a Fire Scout launched from a destroyer could do the job.

    There must be locals in Yemen who can be recruited, for pay, to let us know what is going on there. I would think friendly Arab countries like Jordan or Oman might also be able to send someone who could blend in there and report back. After all, they have an interest in what is happening there, too. And obviously Saudi Arabia will have someone in Yemen watching events. This does harm the credibility of Mr. Obama's policy in the area, but how much credibility did it have to begin with?


    Heya Matchlight. Its more of a problem than BO and his team is letting on. Parties are split 3 ways and with the supporters of Selah in the mix.



    WASHINGTON (AP) — Once hailed by President Barack Obama as a model for fighting extremism, the U.S. counterterrorism strategy in Yemen has all but collapsed as the country descends into chaos, according to U.S. and Yemeni officials. Operations against militants have been scaled back dramatically amid the fall of the American-backed government and the evacuation of U.S. personnel. What had been consistent pressure on Yemen's dangerous al-Qaida affiliate has been eased, the officials say, and a safe haven exists for the development of an offshoot of the Islamic State group.

    It's a swift and striking transformation for an anti-terror campaign Obama heralded just six months ago as the template for efforts to fight the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria. The shift has left Obama open to criticism that he failed to anticipate the risks of a light footprint strategy that aims to put fragile governments and beleaguered local security forces, not the U.S. military, at the forefront.

    "Certainly, repositioning our forces out of Yemen will make our fight against AQAP more difficult. There is no question about that," Pentagon spokesman Col. Steve Warren said Tuesday. Former CIA director Michael Hayden told Congress that U.S. intelligence relationships in Yemen "will erode over time because of our lack of physical presence in the county.".....snip~

    US counterterrorism strategy in Yemen collapses amid chaos - AP News 3/24/2015 12:41 PM
    Last edited by MMC; 03-24-15 at 02:36 PM.

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    Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    There's only been two major strategies in the war on terror as it's only been around for two presidents. One used boots on the ground and American forces to directly involve itself in the fight against terror organizations and the Obama administration has used partnerships, drone attacks, and a much less direct involvement of ground troops.

    I personally prefer the seconds as the first hasn't exactly been a smashing success and the US has spent a lot of blood and treasure for those results.

    As for Libya, I'm not sure MMC, I remember conversations about Libya and I was against intervention, I believe you were as well, but every argument floated was based on humanitarian reasons. What exactly are you saying was the reason we deposed Gadhafi? That we were pandering to Shiite's?

    No.....to the Saud and Sunni, we virtually were handing the country over to them. Problem came in with all the Jihadists and Berber Tribes, that were living in and around Benghazi. While what took place with Assad was going on.

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    Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    No.....to the Saud and Sunni, we virtually were handing the country over to them. Problem came in with all the Jihadists and Berber Tribes, that were living in and around Benghazi. While what took place with Assad was going on.
    I honestly don't know enough to debate whether that's true or not so I will have to read up on it before discussing
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    Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    I honestly don't know enough to debate whether that's true or not so I will have to read up on it before discussing

    Here is a little bit on it.


    Moammar Gadhafi of Libya was elected Monday as leader of the African Union, a position long sought by the eccentric dictator pushing his oil-rich nation into the international mainstream after years of isolation. Some African leaders offered tepid praise for the choice of Gadhafi, who grabbed power in a 1969 coup. Rights groups called him a poor model for Africa at a time when democratic gains are being reversed in countries such as Mauritania and Guinea.

    Terrorism renounced

    Gadhafi renounced terrorism in 2003 and Libya has paid out over a billion dollars to the families of the Lockerbie victims. Libya has also entered into deals with major oil companies for exploitation of its reserves and re-established diplomatic ties with the U.S. Gadhafi has also been involved in mediating the conflict in Darfur with little success. He has mediated between Chad and Sudan — both have accused each other of supporting the other's rebel groups. The Libyan leader's mediation has resulted in deals between Chad and Sudan, which have later been violated. Libya has never held the chairmanship in the 46-year-history of the African Union and its predecessor, the Organization of African Unity. This contributed to his being denied the chairmanship of the Organization of African Unity in 1982.....snip~

    Gadhafi pledges 'United States of Africa' - World news - Africa | NBC News



    Guess who will be next to fall?




    The muscular display of power and pageantry at the inauguration in Washington may be watched by envious eyes around the world. Not least among those who yearn to build another USA – the United States of Africa – under a single president.

    Such was the dream of Muammar Gaddafi, a quixotic project that appeared to have died with the Libyan dictator but has now been rekindled by the Zimbabwean president, Robert Mugabe.

    Speaking in Harare after meeting Benin's president, Thomas Boni Yayi, who is the outgoing African Union (AU) chairman, Mugabe argued that a figurehead is needed to move Africa beyond regional blocs and into the global superleague.....snip~

    Mugabe revives Gaddafi's United States of Africa dream | World news | The Guardian



    This goes against the Sauds vision of a United States of Islam.....hence their version of a Democratic Caliphate, Naturally with their King in Charge. While ISIL's is about their version of a Caliphate. Which of course then there is the Shia's version of a Caliphate under Sharia Law.



    Oh, and here is a Libyan Timeline. You can start from 2008 when BO peep entered into the picture.

    2008 January - Libya takes over one-month rotating presidency of the UN Security Council in a step back to respectability after decades as a pariah of the West.....snip~

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-13755445
    Last edited by MMC; 03-24-15 at 03:14 PM.

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    Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Everything flows from Obama's decision, against all advice, to remove the military from the Middle East. There should be upwards of 50,000, plus coalition troops, to stop the spread of ISIS and maintain some order. Now everything is getting far worse than when he pulled the troops in 2011 and more deaths and chaos will certainly follow.


    One of few posts that recognize the advance across several nations since that pull out. Of course that was George Bush's fault [sarcasm] for having set that date years before , but it is clearly a classic blunder signalling again terrorists can go nuts.

    But, when you brush off a terrorist attack on a US Embassy killing four Americans about the same time you have "ended the war in Iraq", given unconditional support of Arab Spring until it was evident it was not a good thin and proposed to attack Syria..

    Well, I'd say they got to feeling awfully bold now Dubya was gone...and while Obama was waring with his real enemies, Republicans, they kind of took over....

    And why not? There's little to stop them.
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    Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    All true. And that happened under Limpwrist's administration.



    I think you have that part just backwards. It was B. Hussein Obama and Hillary Clinton who helped usher in Mohammed Morsi's brief rule. The Belle of Benghazi's go-between with the Muslim Brotherhood in doing this was her adviser Huma Abedin, aka Mrs. Anthony Weiner, several members of whose family in Egypt have extensive connections with the Brotherhood. I suspect the fact both of them were married to men who were obsessed with showing their private parts to any woman who would look made them sympathetic to each other.



    I agree with all that. And I believe it is more than just incompetence at work. This is the first president in U.S. history who plainly dislikes the very country whose interests he is supposed to be upholding. Mr. Obama has a chip on his shoulder about whites and about America in general, and I think he gets a secret frisson out of seeing this country brought down a notch or two. That partly explains his appeasement of our adversaries, and I don't doubt for a moment that Mr. Putin sees what Obama is about and is trying to take advantage of it. The danger is that Russia may make some aggressive move--against Estonia, for example--that even Obama will not be able to ignore.
    I don't believe President Obama is leading a conspiracy, but I do believe he's intellectually lazy and the Middle East doesn't interest him at all. Fights with Congress and his personal life interest him far more. As a result, he has no focus on what's happening in the world as a result of his laziness.

    I also don't think he's smart enough to plan and pull off some grand scheme.
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    Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I don't believe President Obama is leading a conspiracy, but I do believe he's intellectually lazy and the Middle East doesn't interest him at all. Fights with Congress and his personal life interest him far more. As a result, he has no focus on what's happening in the world as a result of his laziness.

    I also don't think he's smart enough to plan and pull off some grand scheme.


    "Intellectually lazy" exactly describes him. The stories of his glassy eyed boredom at finance meetings, his uneven handling of the middle east, all of it points to a relatively bright guy being stupid.


    I have said before he pays lip service to the details of world affairs and sees foreign policy the same as domestic, he can call allies names because that's what you do. And he does love fighting with Republicans and places that as his administrative priority while his foreign policy is on one day and off the next, like restoring relations with Cuba....one meeting
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    Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    This is an issue I have with this line of thought. It seems like people in the West and people in countries hostile to the US have the same viewpoint. That the US pulls strings and has the power to dictate how events play out. In Iraq and Afghanistan a decade long occupation, tons of money, and a situation where the US was able to exert maximum influence outside of a puppet scenario we end up with a Kharzi that is anti-west when talking to his people and a Maliki. Both are poster boys of bad rule and even then they are limited in their influence. It doesn't even stop there. The Contra war raging in central America lasted for a long time and that's a country that is close to the US and has a fraction of the population of these countries.

    How would the US stop the Muslim Brotherhood from taking over in a democratic election? If the US intervenes than we basically strengthen any group that can pander to arab nationalism and anti-western sentiment.

    It's US intervention in the region and overall western intervention that has led to mistrust of the west in the first place...and it's worked out horribly for the US! We overthrew the Iranian government and it resulted in the Ayatollah taking over. We provided material support to Iraq to check expanding Iranian influence and strengthened Saddam. We overthrew Saddam which has resulted in the expansion of power by Iran and the rising of religious fundamentalist in Iraq.

    These are all situation where the US took an active role in intervening and it turned into an even worse situation, not to mention created a lot of animosity towards the US as a kicker. If intervention was some tried and true way to influence the region I might support it but it's led to one disaster after another.


    You can point to any instance in the world and say the President could of acted differently and created some perfect situation but that's just not true. I can name you a laundry list of things that happened in the world that turned out badly under every President in spite of their actions. I'm not saying that presidents are absolved of any responsibility of the foreign policy decisions but the constant "he should of intervened more" is just faulty logic. Intervention has led to some of worse foreign policy blunders in history.


    I think Bush was horrible, I think he's the poster boy for why constant intervention backfires and should be taken with extreme caution.
    I'd just make a couple of points:

    1. We clearly have different takes on similar issues - that's to be expected.

    2. I don't believe for a minute that Carter orchestrated the ouster of the Shah of Iran and the rise of the Ayatollahs there. I'd say it's the exact opposite. The Shah was a friend of the US, strongly supported by the US, and if I'm not mistaken, his family came to the US after their ouster. Carter did not orchestrate the revolution taking over the US embassy in Tehran and the hostage crisis lasting more than a year and effectively ending his Presidency.

    3. The British have an old saying "in for a penny, in for a pound" - effectively, that means never do anything half assed. Either get in and mean what you say to the end or don't get in. Ask many of the peoples in the Middle East or perhaps even around the world and they'll tell you that they no longer feel that America, under Obama, is a friend they can trust and rely upon. That is toxic when it comes to getting countries to support serious joint action.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I don't believe President Obama is leading a conspiracy, but I do believe he's intellectually lazy and the Middle East doesn't interest him at all. Fights with Congress and his personal life interest him far more. As a result, he has no focus on what's happening in the world as a result of his laziness.

    I also don't think he's smart enough to plan and pull off some grand scheme.


    Heya CJ. All I know is the World is burning.....Iran is on fire and we are being tested outright knowing they can step over the line more and more. Then Russia and Putin. Then 3 different terrorist organizations all into Islam growing rapidly and spreading thru the same region. Terrorist Attacks off in Europe, Australia, Canada, France, Britain, and others.

    Supporters, financiers, enablers.....and all BO peep can do is threaten Israel? It makes no sense at all. I think after he just warned Israel yesterday. That it is time.....to grab him by the scruff of his shirt collar and drag him before Congress for Censure!

    Humiliation time and sent off as a disgrace.

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    Re: U.S. Flees Yemen

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I'd just make a couple of points:

    1. We clearly have different takes on similar issues - that's to be expected.

    2. I don't believe for a minute that Carter orchestrated the ouster of the Shah of Iran and the rise of the Ayatollahs there. I'd say it's the exact opposite. The Shah was a friend of the US, strongly supported by the US, and if I'm not mistaken, his family came to the US after their ouster. Carter did not orchestrate the revolution taking over the US embassy in Tehran and the hostage crisis lasting more than a year and effectively ending his Presidency.
    The US didn't overthrow the Shah, it overthrew a constitutional monarch and installed the Shah into power in order to ensure a pro-west leader that would continue to keep Iranian oil open to US companies.
    https://www.cia.gov/library/center-f...article10.html

    Most of the CIA's acknowledged efforts of this sort have shown that Washington has been more interested in strongman rule in the Middle East and elsewhere than in encouraging democracy. The result is a credibility problem that accompanied American troops into Iraq and continues to plague them as the United States prepares to hand over sovereignty to local authorities. All the Shah's Men helps clarify why, when many Iraqis heard President George Bush concede that "[s]ixty years of Western nations excusing and accommodating the lack of freedom in the Middle East did nothing to make us safe,"15 they may have reacted with more than a little skepticism
    3. The British have an old saying "in for a penny, in for a pound" - effectively, that means never do anything half assed. Either get in and mean what you say to the end or don't get in. Ask many of the peoples in the Middle East or perhaps even around the world and they'll tell you that they no longer feel that America, under Obama, is a friend they can trust and rely upon. That is toxic when it comes to getting countries to support serious joint action.
    I agree with that saying, but I don't think it applies to the fact that every action should be all in to get the best outcome possible. To ensure that Libya had a pro-west regime does that mean we should go as far to land troops in that country if it ensures that we get the regime we want? Should we of kept troops in Iraq for the foreseeable future irregardless of whether Iraqi's want us and are willing to provide soldiers immunity from prosecution? What happens when the first soldier is prosecuted by Iraqi law? We sure as hell won't hand him over, what's the result of that?

    If a situation requires decisive actions and the stakes are high enough you should go all in, but our problems stem from the fact that the stakes are always sky high and require an all in mentality.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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