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Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

Simpleχity;1064480962 said:
Saddam didn't come to power in the 60's and was already in power during the 80's.

You're missing the 70's ... when in fact he did come to power.

And you're dismissing the documentation of CIA support of Saddam Hussein beginning in 1959, and continuing through the late 80's. What's wrong with you.
 
I don't know whether B'smith is right or not, but I do know that phrases translated from one language into another quite frequently change meanings. The famous statement by Krushchev, for example "We will bury you" was better translated as "We will leave you in the dust," not meant to be a threat but a challenge.

The "wipe Israel off of the face of the Earth" and "Death to America" phrases could well be the same thing.
Perhaps, but given the nature of the Communist regimes and the 10's of millions dead, and the actions of the Iranian regimes, it might be best to take them seriously no matter how they were interpreted.
 
And you're dismissing the documentation of CIA support of Saddam Hussein beginning in 1959, and continuing through the late 80's. What's wrong with you.
That was during the Cold War when Saddam Hussein was 22 years old. The CIA must have seen a lot of potential in this guy.
 
And you're dismissing the documentation of CIA support of Saddam Hussein beginning in 1959, and continuing through the late 80's. What's wrong with you.
You have presented no documentation that the CIA was involved in Saddam's ascension years (1975-1979). The CIA was actually averse to Saddam at this time as he was fostering closer ties between Baghdad and Moscow and was instrumental in brokering the 1972 Treaty of Friendship between the two nations. Soviet arms and advisers soon flooded the country. It was during this period that the US lost Iraq to the Soviets, but gained Egypt.

Going farther out in time, Saddam could not have sustained in the 1980-1988 Iran/Iraq War without the massive infusion of Soviet arms, armor, and aircraft which far surpassed the tepid Western assistance. Due to the Soviets, by the end of 1987 Iraq enjoyed a quantitative edge in tanks (5:1) and aircraft (10:1).
 
Simpleχity;1064483448 said:
You have presented no documentation that the CIA was involved in Saddam's ascension years (1975-1979). The CIA was actually averse to Saddam at this time as he was fostering closer ties between Baghdad and Moscow and was instrumental in brokering the 1972 Treaty of Friendship between the two nations. Soviet arms and advisers soon flooded the country. It was during this period that the US lost Iraq to the Soviets, but gained Egypt.

Going farther out in time, Saddam could not have sustained in the 1980-1988 Iran/Iraq War without the massive infusion of Soviet arms, armor, and aircraft which far surpassed the tepid Western assistance. Due to the Soviets, by the end of 1987 Iraq enjoyed a quantitative edge in tanks (5:1) and aircraft (10:1).

Saddam was indeed by then flirting with Moscow. That's besides the fact that the CIA had sponsored and supported Saddam all the years in which I did in fact document, which enabled his ultimate rise to power. And whatever aversions there might have been to Saddam in 1979, evaporated in no time, as pointed out, they were back to helping Saddam throughout his war with Iran. Still can't figure out what you're protecting through your attempt to deny that like so many other similar examples, Saddam was the US darling, until he wasn't.
 
Saddam was indeed by then flirting with Moscow. That's besides the fact that the CIA had sponsored and supported Saddam all the years in which I did in fact document, which enabled his ultimate rise to power. And whatever aversions there might have been to Saddam in 1979, evaporated in no time, as pointed out, they were back to helping Saddam throughout his war with Iran. Still can't figure out what you're protecting through your attempt to deny that like so many other similar examples, Saddam was the US darling, until he wasn't.
Why bother denying anythinng? As explained earlier there was a COLD WAR going on and in war time nations often make allies out of people they personally abhor or whose policies they may disagree. Churchill and Stalin is a very famous example of that though there would be dozens of others.

You should also point to the President of the USA who directed those policies at the time and what the CIA saw in Saddam Hussein when he was just an unknown 22 year old Iraqi..

The point you're trying to make is obvious (bad America!!) but it is also juvenile and naive.
 
Saddam was indeed by then flirting with Moscow. That's besides the fact that the CIA had sponsored and supported Saddam all the years in which I did in fact document, which enabled his ultimate rise to power. And whatever aversions there might have been to Saddam in 1979, evaporated in no time, as pointed out, they were back to helping Saddam throughout his war with Iran. Still can't figure out what you're protecting through your attempt to deny that like so many other similar examples, Saddam was the US darling, until he wasn't.
The CIA used a young Saddam to do some thug work. But they had no involvement in his internal rise to power during the years 1972-1979. The US had no problem with the Israelis bombing his reactor in 1981. The US, the Soviets, the French, and almost every Arab nation was helping Saddam in the war against Iran. So what? The US wasn't in love with him. The Soviet client Saddam was simply the lesser of two evils at war and interfering with the critical oil lanes.

C'mon man. I realize you're no friend of the US, but don't start pushing revisionism.
 
Simpleχity;1064484480 said:
The CIA used a young Saddam to do some thug work. But they had no involvement in his internal rise to power during the years 1972-1979. The US had no problem with the Israelis bombing his reactor in 1981. The US, the Soviets, the French, and almost every Arab nation was helping Saddam in the war against Iran. So what? The US wasn't in love with him. The Soviet client Saddam was simply the lesser of two evils at war and interfering with the critical oil lanes.

C'mon man. I realize you're no friend of the US, but don't start pushing revisionism.

Ok, you can move the goal posts thus. I don't believe I said that the US was in love with Saddam Hussein. Nor any other dictators throughout the course of time that have been used to advance US corporate interests. My point was simply that from an early age, the US/CIA was there to help Saddam's climb to power in Iraq, and continued to use him, so long as it was beneficial to US corporate interests, regardless of how that faired for the citizens of Iraq.
 
Ok, you can move the goal posts thus. I don't believe I said that the US was in love with Saddam Hussein. Nor any other dictators throughout the course of time that have been used to advance US corporate interests. My point was simply that from an early age, the US/CIA was there to help Saddam's climb to power in Iraq, and continued to use him, so long as it was beneficial to US corporate interests, regardless of how that faired for the citizens of Iraq.
The CIA used a young kid that belonged to stumbling and bumbling Ba'ath Party. It had no inking at that time of Saddam's destiny. The US also helped him during the Iran War out of pragmatism ... Khomeini was holding Americans hostage and threatening to disrupt tanker traffic in the Persian Gulf. The CIA had no role in Saddam's internal rise to power between 1972-1979.
 
Ok, you can move the goal posts thus. I don't believe I said that the US was in love with Saddam Hussein. Nor any other dictators throughout the course of time that have been used to advance US corporate interests. My point was simply that from an early age, the US/CIA was there to help Saddam's climb to power in Iraq, and continued to use him, so long as it was beneficial to US corporate interests, regardless of how that faired for the citizens of Iraq.
Which "US Corporate interests" are you referring to, how are they different from US interests, and what evidence do you have to support your charges?

The fact that you have the CIA supporting an unknown 22 year-old Iraqi in a rise to power suggests you're relying more on conspiracy blogs rather than legitimate news sources. As you know, any errors previous administrations may have made in support of Saddam Hussein of Iraq were corrected when George Bush had him removed, tried by the Iraqi justice system, and then introduced democracy to the nation for the first time in its history.
 
Simpleχity;1064484879 said:
The CIA used a young kid that belonged to stumbling and bumbling Ba'ath Party. It had no inking at that time of Saddam's destiny. The US also helped him during the Iran War out of pragmatism ... Khomeini was holding Americans hostage and threatening to disrupt tanker traffic in the Persian Gulf. The CIA had no role in Saddam's internal rise to power between 1972-1979.

Yes, well then you go on claiming that the CIA was playing kid games. Enough.
 
Yes, well then you go on claiming that the CIA was playing kid games. Enough.

What he said was correct and you have no room for disagreement. Of course many will believe what they prefer to believe but often, if we make those beliefs known, they may run into facts. This is the case here.
 
I don't know whether B'smith is right or not, but I do know that phrases translated from one language into another quite frequently change meanings. The famous statement by Krushchev, for example "We will bury you" was better translated as "We will leave you in the dust," not meant to be a threat but a challenge.

The "wipe Israel off of the face of the Earth" and "Death to America" phrases could well be the same thing.
_________________________


I appreciate your open mindedness.

Ahmanadinejad was deliberately mistranslated to engender greater Anti-Iranian xenophobia and provide more fodder for the Pro-War crowd.

BBC was the first to issue the deliberate mistranslation on its front page. Their retraction and proper translation was days later buried inconspicuously on later pages.

Most major media outlets printed the correct translation in obscure locations while Independent media featured it more conspicuously. Poorly informed War Mongers already had all the "proof" they needed chose & still choose to ignore the fact.

Anyone who has taken the time & effort to learn other languages understands that there are few direct translations with identical meanings. This is especially the case in different language "Families" like English to Farsi


I hope you will find this article useful:



“'Hitler' does New York”
Asia Times Online :: Middle East News - 'Hitler' does New York

EXCERPT “ Humming non-stop in the background noise was the "wipe Israel of the map" myth.

No one had the intellectual decency to point out that what he really said, in Farsi, in a speech on October 2005 to an annual anti-Zionist conference in Iran, was that "the regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".

He was doing no more than quoting the late ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini - hoping that an unfair (toward Palestine) regime would be replaced by another one more equitable; he was not threatening to nuke Israel. Warmongers anyway don't bother to check the facts.”CONTINUED





Meanwhile, America's former ambassador to the UN & its & AIPAC Poster Boy are confirming World fears about America's bellicose War Mongers:

“McCain Joins Bolton, Invites Israel to Bomb Iran”
McCain Joins Bolton, Invites Israel to Bomb Iran*|*Jon Rainwater


Many Thanks
 
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When you were there while the Shah was in power there were over 100= 150,000 Jews in Iran. Now there are less than 9,000.

If "Death to the Israel" or "Death To America" is hyperbole, why repeat it? Are they so unsophisticated that they don't understand the significance of these words? If that is the case, as you claim, then how in the world can we expect these backward people to possess nuclear weapons?

Sharing a lunch with some Iranians over 40 years ago was probably a wonderful experience but the world is having to deal with the Iran of today.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=iran...v&sa=X&ei=CrsZVdvgCpewogSxkIKwBg&ved=0CBwQsAQ


Re: your sneering: "Sharing a lunch with some Iranians over 40 years ago was probably a wonderful experience but the world is having to deal with the Iran of today."


Actually it's possible to stay in touch with Regional events outside of doing research.

For Example, Friday night my wife & I hosted a dinner party for some Regional Med. students who are from Greece, Afghanistan, Pakistan & Iran etc. so I had a more recent opportunity to help understand more about everything from kite fighting to regional sentiments & some of what's really going on in Iran & elsewhere in the Region. They'll be back.

They agreed that the "Death to America" stuff is just meaningless & embarrassing, tiresome, old hyperbolic rhetoric. Iran's younger generation is working on changing the political landscape in Iran & there are, obviously, "backward" people in every country.
 
Re: your sneering: "Sharing a lunch with some Iranians over 40 years ago was probably a wonderful experience but the world is having to deal with the Iran of today."


Actually it's possible to stay in touch with Regional events outside of doing research.

For Example, Friday night my wife & I hosted a dinner party for some Regional Med. students who are from Greece, Afghanistan, Pakistan & Iran etc. so I had a more recent opportunity to help understand more about everything from kite fighting to regional sentiments & some of what's really going on in Iran & elsewhere in the Region. They'll be back.

They agreed that the "Death to America" stuff is just meaningless & embarrassing, tiresome, old hyperbolic rhetoric. Iran's younger generation is working on changing the political landscape in Iran & there are, obviously, "backward" people in every country.
The great 'melting pot' at work. A wonderful thing.

Yes, there are backward people in many areas of the world, which is why they must not be allowed nuclear weapons.
 
Re: your sneering: "Sharing a lunch with some Iranians over 40 years ago was probably a wonderful experience but the world is having to deal with the Iran of today."


Actually it's possible to stay in touch with Regional events outside of doing research.

For Example, Friday night my wife & I hosted a dinner party for some Regional Med. students who are from Greece, Afghanistan, Pakistan & Iran etc. so I had a more recent opportunity to help understand more about everything from kite fighting to regional sentiments & some of what's really going on in Iran & elsewhere in the Region. They'll be back.

They agreed that the "Death to America" stuff is just meaningless & embarrassing, tiresome, old hyperbolic rhetoric. Iran's younger generation is working on changing the political landscape in Iran & there are, obviously, "backward" people in every country.

I appreciate your attempt. Your talking to a Canadian, who lives in Costa Rica, his opinion is moot.
 
It's the same with "Death to America". The speaker doesn't mean it & doesn't expect his audience to believe he means it literally.
Bs!


Iran militia chief: Destroying Israel is ‘nonnegotiable’

Basij commander Mohammad Reza Naqdi also threatens Saudis, saying their fate will be like that of Saddam Hussein


The commander of the Basij militia of Iran’s Revolutionary Guards said that “erasing Israel off the map” is “nonnegotiable,” according to an Israel Radio report Tuesday.

[...]

In 2014, Naqdi said Iran was stepping up efforts to arm West Bank Palestinians for battle against Israel, adding the move would lead to Israel’s annihilation, Iran’s Fars news agency reported.

“Arming the West Bank has started and weapons will be supplied to the people of this region,” Naqdi said.

“The Zionists should know that the next war won’t be confined to the present borders and the Mujahedeen will push them back,” he added. Naqdi claimed that much of Hamas’s arsenal, training and technical knowhow in the summer conflict with Israel was supplied by Iran.

[...]
Iran militia chief: Destroying Israel is 'nonnegotiable' | The Times of Israel
 
Bs!


Iran militia chief: Destroying Israel is ‘nonnegotiable’

Basij commander Mohammad Reza Naqdi also threatens Saudis, saying their fate will be like that of Saddam Hussein


The commander of the Basij militia of Iran’s Revolutionary Guards said that “erasing Israel off the map” is “nonnegotiable,” according to an Israel Radio report Tuesday.

[...]

In 2014, Naqdi said Iran was stepping up efforts to arm West Bank Palestinians for battle against Israel, adding the move would lead to Israel’s annihilation, Iran’s Fars news agency reported.

“Arming the West Bank has started and weapons will be supplied to the people of this region,” Naqdi said.

“The Zionists should know that the next war won’t be confined to the present borders and the Mujahedeen will push them back,” he added. Naqdi claimed that much of Hamas’s arsenal, training and technical knowhow in the summer conflict with Israel was supplied by Iran.

[...]
Iran militia chief: Destroying Israel is 'nonnegotiable' | The Times of Israel

The left will tell us words dont matter n stuff.
 
Bs!


Iran militia chief: Destroying Israel is ‘nonnegotiable’

Basij commander Mohammad Reza Naqdi also threatens Saudis, saying their fate will be like that of Saddam Hussein


The commander of the Basij militia of Iran’s Revolutionary Guards said that “erasing Israel off the map” is “nonnegotiable,” according to an Israel Radio report Tuesday.

[...]

In 2014, Naqdi said Iran was stepping up efforts to arm West Bank Palestinians for battle against Israel, adding the move would lead to Israel’s annihilation, Iran’s Fars news agency reported.

“Arming the West Bank has started and weapons will be supplied to the people of this region,” Naqdi said.

“The Zionists should know that the next war won’t be confined to the present borders and the Mujahedeen will push them back,” he added. Naqdi claimed that much of Hamas’s arsenal, training and technical knowhow in the summer conflict with Israel was supplied by Iran.

[...]
Iran militia chief: Destroying Israel is 'nonnegotiable' | The Times of Israel

The left will tell us words dont matter n stuff.
 
Yes, well then you go on claiming that the CIA was playing kid games. Enough.
I'll call out you (or anyone) whenever I see an attempt to manipulate/falsify history in order to promote a political/ideological agenda.
 
Simpleχity;1064487035 said:
I'll call out you (or anyone) whenever I see an attempt to manipulate/falsify history in order to promote a political/ideological agenda.

****ing bull****. All your calling out is your own ignorance of the facts. I posted documentation of the CIA's involvement in Saddam Hussein's rise to power. I see nothing from you but an opinion. You think the CIA was playing Lincoln Logs with Saddam Hussein when he was 22 for Christ's sake.
 
I appreciate your attempt. Your talking to a Canadian, who lives in Costa Rica, his opinion is moot.
None of us live in Iraq or Iran so all are equally qualified to comment. You seem to have spent a lot of time in Iraq, especially when Saddam was 22.

Tell me, what was Saddam really like in those early years?
 
None of us live in Iraq or Iran so all are equally qualified to comment. You seem to have spent a lot of time in Iraq, especially when Saddam was 22.

Tell me, what was Saddam really like in those early years?

Well, you have a point there. He was an ornery little rascal.
 
Bs!


Iran militia chief: Destroying Israel is ‘nonnegotiable’

Basij commander Mohammad Reza Naqdi also threatens Saudis, saying their fate will be like that of Saddam Hussein


The commander of the Basij militia of Iran’s Revolutionary Guards said that “erasing Israel off the map” is “nonnegotiable,” according to an Israel Radio report Tuesday.

[...]

In 2014, Naqdi said Iran was stepping up efforts to arm West Bank Palestinians for battle against Israel, adding the move would lead to Israel’s annihilation, Iran’s Fars news agency reported.

“Arming the West Bank has started and weapons will be supplied to the people of this region,” Naqdi said.

“The Zionists should know that the next war won’t be confined to the present borders and the Mujahedeen will push them back,” he added. Naqdi claimed that much of Hamas’s arsenal, training and technical knowhow in the summer conflict with Israel was supplied by Iran.

[...]
Iran militia chief: Destroying Israel is 'nonnegotiable' | The Times of Israel


_____________________________

Another cherry picked quote from a single Iranian from Israeli sources noted for a long history of self serving deceptions & deliberate mistranslations is hardly indicative of Iran's propensity for developing & using nuclear weapons.

Remember that the Israelis were among those who fed the US deceptive Intel. prior to the last war the Israeli government wanted the US to fight for them. The current Israeli government even more fervent now & more prone to more plentiful & outrageous deceptions. Meanwhile, Iran has still attacked on one in 300 years.

Have you even lightly considered the long range & widespread carnage, environmental disaster, damage to US interests etc an unprovoked attack on Iran would incur?

Do you have the least concern for the lives of the thousands of loyal Americans currently serving in the Region or Iran's Jewish community?

I've cited a more impartial source ( below) as exposing the infamously fraudulent "Wipe Israel off of the Face of the map" as being a deliberate mistranslation intended to deceive those who aren't fluent in Farsi & are unfamiliar with Mid East / Cent. Asian realities.

There is far more proof that pro-War individuals, institutions & States will resort to any deception or False Flag attack than evidence that Iran will launch an unprovoked War.

History is simply repeating itself after only a few years.

Please remember that the same time "proof" of Iraq's WMDs, Yellowcake etc were dominating News headlines, Israeli lobbies were "quietly" pressuring Congress to approve "the use of force" against Iraq on false premises:

“Quietly lobbying Congress to approve the use of force in Iraq was one of AIPAC’s successes over the past year”
AIPAC Executive Director Howard Kohr; N.Y. Sun; Jan. ’03


All we have to show for our gullibility is seemingly endless Mid East carnage and underfunded, overcrowded V.A. hospitals where mangled, burned & traumatized, young Americans languish unmentioned while fresh War mongers peddle old deceptions.


Please Note:


“'Hitler' does New York”
Asia Times Online :: Middle East News - 'Hitler' does New York

EXCERPT “ Humming non-stop in the background noise was the "wipe Israel of the map" myth.

No one had the intellectual decency to point out that what he really said, in Farsi, in a speech on October 2005 to an annual anti-Zionist conference in Iran, was that "the regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".

He was doing no more than quoting the late ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini - hoping that an unfair (toward Palestine) regime would be replaced by another one more equitable; he was not threatening to nuke Israel. Warmongers anyway don't bother to check the facts.”CONTINUED

_____________

Thanks
 
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DECEPTIVE MISTRANSLATIONS; CONSIDER THE SOURCE


Deliberate mistranslations of Farsi seem to be more prevalent than a few isolated incidents.

Photos of banners and placards in photos of Iranians may read "Death to America / Israel" in English but in reality the Farsi translation is far more benign.

Not only has Ahmadinejad's speech been mistranslated but so have those of other Iranian leaders to paint Iran with a more malevolent brush than is accurate.


Rather than transcribe the following article, I'll only cite Excerpts & hope that readers looking for the truth about what Iranians have REALLY said:



“Did Ahmadinejad really say Israel should be ‘wiped off the map’?”
Did Ahmadinejad really say Israel should be ‘wiped off the map’? - The Washington Post
The Facts
EXCERPTS “Arash Norouzi of the Mossadegh Project pointed out that the original statement in Persian did not say that Israel should be wiped from the map, but instead that it would collapse.

“Khomeini gave a speech in which he said in Persian “Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.”

This means, “This occupation regime over Jerusalem must vanish from the arena of time.”*

But then anonymous wire service translators rendered Khomeini as saying that Israel “must be wiped off the face of the map,” which Cole and Nourouzi say is inaccurate.

Joshua Teitelbaum of the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs compiled an interesting collection of photographs of these banners, such as one on the building that houses reserve military forces of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. “Israel should be wiped out of the face of the world,” the sign reads in English

Sadjadpour, who has closely studied the statements of Khamenei, said that the supreme leader has spoken more on the question of Israel than any other issue, which is remarkable given that Iran shares no border with Israel and that the Jewish state has virtually no impact on the daily lives of Iranians.

Sadjadpour said Khamenei has been consistent, stating repeatedly that the goal is not the military destruction of the Jewish state but “the defeat of Zionist ideology and the dissolution of Israel through a ‘popular referendum.’”


Karim Sadjadpour, an Iranian specialist at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace,”CONTINUED

. . . .

Since even US Presidents have repeated deliberately translated quotes leaving millions to believe that Iran is far more hostile toward Israel & the US than in reality, the result has been an extensively deceived Western world.

The tragic result is that IF there is to be a WW 3 evolving from a War on Iran, it will be as most wars:


"One of the most horrible features of war is that all the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are NOT fighting."
George Orwell, 1938
 
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