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Thread: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

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    Re: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I'm not fluent in Farsi, are you?

    Since I'm not fluent in Farsi, but am fluent in two other languages, I understand how easy it is to mistranslate phrases from one language to anther.

    But, not being fluent in Farsi, I can only conclude that the phrases in question were or weren't mistranslations based on the evidence presented.

    And, "that's BS" is not evidence.
    You are absolutely right that much can appear or get lost in translation. The thing is that the Regime has been and still is, as far as anyone can tell, still very much planing, aiding and abetting a low level war against the US and a number of its allies. Remarks by the Holy Man are thus totally consistent with policy and activities of Iran's highest leadership.

    It is the text of the deal that is the abnormality.

    And that is the main weakness of the deal as it is on the table. We accept that the sanctions will be lifted on a nation actively at war with us freeing much more money to do us and our allies harm.

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    Re: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post


    Yes "Official".


    From the link B'smith provided.

    Ahmadinejad slightly misquoted Khomeini, substituting “safheh-i ruzgar,” or “page of time" for "sahneh-i ruzgar" or “arena of time.” But in any case, the old translation was dug up and used again by the Iranian news agency, Cole says. In fact, that’s how it was presented for years on Ahmadinejad’s English-language Web site, as the Times noted in a somewhat defensive article on the translation debate.

    But the story doesn’t end there. Karim Sadjadpour, an Iranian specialist at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, notes that Iranian government entities began to erect billboards and signs with the “wipe off” phrase in English. Joshua Teitelbaum of the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs compiled an interesting collection of photographs of these banners, such as one on the building that houses reserve military forces of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. “Israel should be wiped out of the face of the world,” the sign reads in English.


    Did Ahmadinejad really say Israel should be ‘wiped off the map’? - The Washington Post

    Which links to the following info.

    But translators in Tehran who work for the president's office and the foreign ministry disagree with them. All official translations of Mr. Ahmadinejad's statement, including a description of it on his Web site (www*president*ir/eng/), refer to wiping Israel away. Sohrab Mahdavi, one of Iran's most prominent translators, and Siamak Namazi, managing director of a Tehran consulting firm, who is bilingual, both say "wipe off" or "wipe away" is more accurate than "vanish" because the Persian verb is active and transitive.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/11/we...11bronner.html


    So again; Yes, Official.

    This bs that they didn't mean what even they say they meant, is absurd.





    Your comments are absurd.
    The accurate translation is exactly what they said it means.
    Do you really not understand that?

    You do not get to discount what they say it means. They decide that, not you, and not someone trying to spin what they mean.

    They told you what it means and that is the final word on it.
    Can we conclude that they're saying one thing in Farsi, but another in English? Why would they do that? Do they want to "wipe Israel off the map," or do they want us to believe that they want to "wipe Israel off the map"?

    We know that we're dealing with a duplicitous and manipulative regime in Iran. So, what is their game really?

    Surely, they must realize that, even with a nuclear weapon, they can't really destroy Israel without being destroyed themselves. They aren't ISIS. They are at least rational.
    "Those were lies, pure and simple."

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    Re: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Can we conclude that they're saying one thing in Farsi, but another in English?
    No. We can conclude they are telling us exactly what they did.
    When it is official endorsed as such there is no other interpretation.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post


    Yes "Official".


    From the link B'smith provided.

    Ahmadinejad slightly misquoted Khomeini, substituting “safheh-i ruzgar,” or “page of time" for "sahneh-i ruzgar" or “arena of time.” But in any case, the old translation was dug up and used again by the Iranian news agency, Cole says. In fact, that’s how it was presented for years on Ahmadinejad’s English-language Web site, as the Times noted in a somewhat defensive article on the translation debate.

    But the story doesn’t end there. Karim Sadjadpour, an Iranian specialist at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, notes that Iranian government entities began to erect billboards and signs with the “wipe off” phrase in English. Joshua Teitelbaum of the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs compiled an interesting collection of photographs of these banners, such as one on the building that houses reserve military forces of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. “Israel should be wiped out of the face of the world,” the sign reads in English.

    [SIZE=1][url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/did-ahmadinejad-really-say-israel-should-be-wiped-off-the-map/2011/10/04/gIQABJIKML_blog.html]Did Ahmadinejad really say Israel should be ‘wiped off the map’? - The Washington Post

    Which links to the following info.

    But translators in Tehran who work for the president's office and the foreign ministry disagree with them. All officialtranslations of Mr. Ahmadinejad's statement, including a description of it on his Web site (www*president*ir/eng/), refer to wiping Israel away.[/COLOR][/U][/COLOR][/B] Sohrab Mahdavi, one of Iran's most prominent translators, and Siamak Namazi, managing director of a Tehran consulting firm, who is bilingual, both say "wipe off" or "wipe away" is more accurate than "vanish" because the Persian verb is active and transitive.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/11/we...11bronner.html[/INDENT][/INDENT]


    So again; Yes, Official.

    This bs that they didn't mean what even they say they meant, is absurd.





    Your comments are absurd.
    The accurate translation is exactly what they said it means.
    Do you really not understand that?

    You do not get to discount what they say it means. They decide that, not you, and not someone trying to spin what they mean.

    They told you what it means and that is the final word on it.
    _________________________________

    My comments are consistent with thousands like it interested in the truth instead of Western Major Media bias.

    The name of this Thread: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal.

    All you have done is to clutter the question of what Khamenei said with anti Iranian opinions from the same anti Iranian sources that have perpetrated the "Wipe Israel...." myth on non-Farsi speakers for years.

    For Example, when you mention pro Israel Joshua Teitelbaum's Report in the W.P. article, you conveniently omitted the salient fact that it was written from a pro-Israel perspective"

    EXCERPT “......Teitelbaum’s report, while written from a pro-Israel perspective.......” CONTINUED




    Next, you quoted Sohrab Mahdavi as supporting the "Wiped off the map....." but you omitted the later clarification that "map" was meant GEOGRAPHICAL "map" or "list of countries" not Israel itself.


    Did you intentionally omit those relevant sections of the articles above?


    "Just How Far Did They Go, Those Words Against Israel? "
    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/11/we...nner.html?_r=0

    EXCERPT "Ahmad Zeidabadi, a professor of political science in Tehran whose specialty is Iran-Israel relations, explained: "It seems that in the early days of the revolution the word 'map' was used because it appeared to be the best meaningful translation for what he said. The words 'sahneh roozgar' are metaphorical and do not refer to anything specific.

    Maybe it was interpreted as 'book of countries,' and the closest thing to that was a map. Since then, we have often heard 'Israel bayad az naghshe jographya mahv gardad' — Israel must be wiped off the geographical map. Hard-liners have used it in their speeches."

    The final translation issue is Mr. Ahmadinejad's use of "occupying regime of Jerusalem" rather than "Israel."CONTINUED

    Khamenei , like Ahmadinejad only slightly misquoted Khomeini in the metaphorical meaning of the word "map" , "list of countries"


    The vast majority of objective & professional translations indicate no hostile intent on the part of Iran including interpretations I have heard from Iranians as recently as last week.


    Additionally, there is nothing in these Iranian speeches is there anything as bellicose as Netanyahu's martial rhetoric or that coming from Washington DC:

    “McCain Joins Bolton, Invites Israel to Bomb Iran”
    McCain Joins Bolton, Invites Israel to Bomb Iran*|*Jon Rainwater

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    Re: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

    Quote Originally Posted by B'smith View Post
    My comments are consistent with thousands like it interested in the truth instead of Western Major Media bias.

    The name of this Thread: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal.

    All you have done is to clutter the question of what Khamenei said with anti Iranian opinions from the same anti Iranian sources that have perpetrated the "Wipe Israel...." myth on non-Farsi speakers for years.

    For Example, when you mention pro Israel Joshua Teitelbaum's Report in the W.P. article, you conveniently omitted the salient fact that it was written from a pro-Israel perspective"

    EXCERPT “......Teitelbaum’s report, while written from a pro-Israel perspective.......” CONTINUED




    Next, you quoted Sohrab Mahdavi as supporting the "Wiped off the map....." but you omitted the later clarification that "map" was meant GEOGRAPHICAL "map" or "list of countries" not Israel itself.


    Did you intentionally omit those relevant sections of the articles above?


    "Just How Far Did They Go, Those Words Against Israel? "
    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/11/we...nner.html?_r=0

    EXCERPT "Ahmad Zeidabadi, a professor of political science in Tehran whose specialty is Iran-Israel relations, explained: "It seems that in the early days of the revolution the word 'map' was used because it appeared to be the best meaningful translation for what he said. The words 'sahneh roozgar' are metaphorical and do not refer to anything specific.

    Maybe it was interpreted as 'book of countries,' and the closest thing to that was a map. Since then, we have often heard 'Israel bayad az naghshe jographya mahv gardad' — Israel must be wiped off the geographical map. Hard-liners have used it in their speeches."

    The final translation issue is Mr. Ahmadinejad's use of "occupying regime of Jerusalem" rather than "Israel."CONTINUED

    Khamenei , like Ahmadinejad only slightly misquoted Khomeini in the metaphorical meaning of the word "map" , "list of countries"


    The vast majority of objective & professional translations indicate no hostile intent on the part of Iran including interpretations I have heard from Iranians as recently as last week.


    Additionally, there is nothing in these Iranian speeches is there anything as bellicose as Netanyahu's martial rhetoric or that coming from Washington DC:

    “McCain Joins Bolton, Invites Israel to Bomb Iran”
    McCain Joins Bolton, Invites Israel to Bomb Iran*|*Jon Rainwater

    Your comments continue to be absurd.

    You do not get to discount what they say it means. They decide that, not you, and not someone trying to spin what they mean.

    They told you what it means and that is the final word on it. Period.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

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    Re: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    No. We can conclude they are telling us exactly what they did.
    When it is official endorsed as such there is no other interpretation.
    Well, maybe. I think B'smith makes a pretty good case for mis translation.

    So, why would he Iranian government want to perpetuate the perception on the part of the West that they want to destroy Israel?


    Consider this: The American president, on behalf of the United Nations, just brokered a deal in which Iraq would not enrich uranium to the point of it being weapons grade for, I believe 10 years or so, and assented to having inspectors to see to it that they kept their word. In exchange, they got economic sanctions lifted that was seriously weakening their economy.

    Now, had the nations of the UN not seen Iran as a threat to Israel, they never would have bothered to negotiate anything, and Iran would still be stuck with the sanctions.

    It makes sense that having perpetuated that mistranslation was a part of their strategy to get sanctions lifted.
    "Those were lies, pure and simple."

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    Re: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Well, maybe. I think B'smith makes a pretty good case for mis translation.

    So, why would he Iranian government want to perpetuate the perception on the part of the West that they want to destroy Israel?


    Consider this: The American president, on behalf of the United Nations, just brokered a deal in which Iraq would not enrich uranium to the point of it being weapons grade for, I believe 10 years or so, and assented to having inspectors to see to it that they kept their word. In exchange, they got economic sanctions lifted that was seriously weakening their economy.

    Now, had the nations of the UN not seen Iran as a threat to Israel, they never would have bothered to negotiate anything, and Iran would still be stuck with the sanctions.

    It makes sense that having perpetuated that mistranslation was a part of their strategy to get sanctions lifted.
    Some protesters have helpfully done the translating for us lest their message be missed or misinterpreted.https://www.google.ca/search?q=death...w=1600&bih=742

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    Re: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Some protesters have helpfully done the translating for us lest their message be missed or misinterpreted.https://www.google.ca/search?q=death...w=1600&bih=742
    Yes, as I said, that's what they're saying in English. Clearly, messages in English are meant for the US primarily, and for the rest of the world.
    "Those were lies, pure and simple."

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    Re: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Some protesters have helpfully done the translating for us lest their message be missed or misinterpreted.https://www.google.ca/search?q=death...w=1600&bih=742
    ____________________

    If you want to redirect this discussion from statements by national leaders to omnipresent anti American billboards & posters, you should note that posters opposing the US & its Government are timeless & worldwide.....including in the US.

    Singling out Iran, again is using the same egregious double standard that has been employed against it all along by primarily 2 countries: the US & Israel.

    What is most important is the fact that is most abhorred & least mentioned by opponents of Iranian: that it has attacked no one in 300 years.

    Before you mention Hezbollah, please note that all Regional players support Proxy armies / "Terrorist" groups in Iran's "Backyard". However Hezbollah as opposed to MEK etc, is only considered a "Terrorist" group by 3 countries in the world & not by the US. Hezbollah is more widely recognized for its Humanitarian work, Rebuilding projects & Political activities.

    Meanwhile, I have still heard no reason why ambiguous statements by Iranian leaders are considered more ominous than unambiguous threats from Netanyahu & noted US War Mongers:

    “McCain Joins Bolton, Invites Israel to Bomb Iran”
    McCain Joins Bolton, Invites Israel to Bomb Iran*|*Jon Rainwater
    EXCERPT “Former UN Ambassador John Bolton, just wrote a piece in the New York Times bluntly titled, "To Stop Iran's Bomb, Bomb Iran." Bolton, was one of the main cheerleaders for the war in Iraq and assured the public that:
    "We are confident that Saddam Hussein has hidden weapons of mass destruction and production facilities in Iraq." CONTINUED


    Has anyone simply discussed the meaningfulness of Khamenei's language with an Iranian?
    Last edited by B'smith; 04-04-15 at 08:08 PM.

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    Re: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    Your comments continue to be absurd.

    You do not get to discount what they say it means. They decide that, not you, and not someone trying to spin what they mean.

    They told you what it means and that is the final word on it. Period.
    _______________

    Please stop trying to bait me with your vague & repeated "comments are absurd"

    It is irrefutable that there has been an extensive, major media, anti Iran bias leaving many people hostile to a country to which they've never been & people they've never met. That would include you and too many Americans

    The only "they" that matters here are the original speakers and those attempting to produce OBJECTIVE & ACCURATE translations of which there have been very few.

    It seems that you've never learned to become fluent in a second language or you would have a better understanding of mistranslations and the fact that some sentiments simply can't be accurately translated.

    I've been to Iran & maintain contact with Iranians and High Ranking US Military Officers who report friendly working relationships with Iran's military personnel during their frequent encounters.

    For Example, US & Iranian sailors routinely exchange greetings & gifts while aiding each other in Search-&-Rescue Ops & routine accidents. Lemon & sugar coated cashews from the Iranians are especially popular among US sailors & Marines.

    The US - Iranian Relationship can easily improve & be beneficial to all as there is much more going on between Iran & the US that is classified, censored or ignored by a US media with a history of anti Iran bias.

    If there is to be a "final word on it", it should certainly be a well informed & objective "final word"

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