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Thread: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

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    Re: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Saddam didn't come to power in the 60's and was already in power during the 80's.

    You're missing the 70's ... when in fact he did come to power.
    And you're dismissing the documentation of CIA support of Saddam Hussein beginning in 1959, and continuing through the late 80's. What's wrong with you.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I don't know whether B'smith is right or not, but I do know that phrases translated from one language into another quite frequently change meanings. The famous statement by Krushchev, for example "We will bury you" was better translated as "We will leave you in the dust," not meant to be a threat but a challenge.

    The "wipe Israel off of the face of the Earth" and "Death to America" phrases could well be the same thing.
    Perhaps, but given the nature of the Communist regimes and the 10's of millions dead, and the actions of the Iranian regimes, it might be best to take them seriously no matter how they were interpreted.

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    Re: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    And you're dismissing the documentation of CIA support of Saddam Hussein beginning in 1959, and continuing through the late 80's. What's wrong with you.
    That was during the Cold War when Saddam Hussein was 22 years old. The CIA must have seen a lot of potential in this guy.

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    Re: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    And you're dismissing the documentation of CIA support of Saddam Hussein beginning in 1959, and continuing through the late 80's. What's wrong with you.
    You have presented no documentation that the CIA was involved in Saddam's ascension years (1975-1979). The CIA was actually averse to Saddam at this time as he was fostering closer ties between Baghdad and Moscow and was instrumental in brokering the 1972 Treaty of Friendship between the two nations. Soviet arms and advisers soon flooded the country. It was during this period that the US lost Iraq to the Soviets, but gained Egypt.

    Going farther out in time, Saddam could not have sustained in the 1980-1988 Iran/Iraq War without the massive infusion of Soviet arms, armor, and aircraft which far surpassed the tepid Western assistance. Due to the Soviets, by the end of 1987 Iraq enjoyed a quantitative edge in tanks (5:1) and aircraft (10:1).


    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. -- Marine Corps General James 'Chaos' Mattis

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    Re: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    You have presented no documentation that the CIA was involved in Saddam's ascension years (1975-1979). The CIA was actually averse to Saddam at this time as he was fostering closer ties between Baghdad and Moscow and was instrumental in brokering the 1972 Treaty of Friendship between the two nations. Soviet arms and advisers soon flooded the country. It was during this period that the US lost Iraq to the Soviets, but gained Egypt.

    Going farther out in time, Saddam could not have sustained in the 1980-1988 Iran/Iraq War without the massive infusion of Soviet arms, armor, and aircraft which far surpassed the tepid Western assistance. Due to the Soviets, by the end of 1987 Iraq enjoyed a quantitative edge in tanks (5:1) and aircraft (10:1).
    Saddam was indeed by then flirting with Moscow. That's besides the fact that the CIA had sponsored and supported Saddam all the years in which I did in fact document, which enabled his ultimate rise to power. And whatever aversions there might have been to Saddam in 1979, evaporated in no time, as pointed out, they were back to helping Saddam throughout his war with Iran. Still can't figure out what you're protecting through your attempt to deny that like so many other similar examples, Saddam was the US darling, until he wasn't.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Saddam was indeed by then flirting with Moscow. That's besides the fact that the CIA had sponsored and supported Saddam all the years in which I did in fact document, which enabled his ultimate rise to power. And whatever aversions there might have been to Saddam in 1979, evaporated in no time, as pointed out, they were back to helping Saddam throughout his war with Iran. Still can't figure out what you're protecting through your attempt to deny that like so many other similar examples, Saddam was the US darling, until he wasn't.
    Why bother denying anythinng? As explained earlier there was a COLD WAR going on and in war time nations often make allies out of people they personally abhor or whose policies they may disagree. Churchill and Stalin is a very famous example of that though there would be dozens of others.

    You should also point to the President of the USA who directed those policies at the time and what the CIA saw in Saddam Hussein when he was just an unknown 22 year old Iraqi..

    The point you're trying to make is obvious (bad America!!) but it is also juvenile and naive.

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    Re: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Saddam was indeed by then flirting with Moscow. That's besides the fact that the CIA had sponsored and supported Saddam all the years in which I did in fact document, which enabled his ultimate rise to power. And whatever aversions there might have been to Saddam in 1979, evaporated in no time, as pointed out, they were back to helping Saddam throughout his war with Iran. Still can't figure out what you're protecting through your attempt to deny that like so many other similar examples, Saddam was the US darling, until he wasn't.
    The CIA used a young Saddam to do some thug work. But they had no involvement in his internal rise to power during the years 1972-1979. The US had no problem with the Israelis bombing his reactor in 1981. The US, the Soviets, the French, and almost every Arab nation was helping Saddam in the war against Iran. So what? The US wasn't in love with him. The Soviet client Saddam was simply the lesser of two evils at war and interfering with the critical oil lanes.

    C'mon man. I realize you're no friend of the US, but don't start pushing revisionism.


    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. -- Marine Corps General James 'Chaos' Mattis

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    Re: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    The CIA used a young Saddam to do some thug work. But they had no involvement in his internal rise to power during the years 1972-1979. The US had no problem with the Israelis bombing his reactor in 1981. The US, the Soviets, the French, and almost every Arab nation was helping Saddam in the war against Iran. So what? The US wasn't in love with him. The Soviet client Saddam was simply the lesser of two evils at war and interfering with the critical oil lanes.

    C'mon man. I realize you're no friend of the US, but don't start pushing revisionism.
    Ok, you can move the goal posts thus. I don't believe I said that the US was in love with Saddam Hussein. Nor any other dictators throughout the course of time that have been used to advance US corporate interests. My point was simply that from an early age, the US/CIA was there to help Saddam's climb to power in Iraq, and continued to use him, so long as it was beneficial to US corporate interests, regardless of how that faired for the citizens of Iraq.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Ok, you can move the goal posts thus. I don't believe I said that the US was in love with Saddam Hussein. Nor any other dictators throughout the course of time that have been used to advance US corporate interests. My point was simply that from an early age, the US/CIA was there to help Saddam's climb to power in Iraq, and continued to use him, so long as it was beneficial to US corporate interests, regardless of how that faired for the citizens of Iraq.
    The CIA used a young kid that belonged to stumbling and bumbling Ba'ath Party. It had no inking at that time of Saddam's destiny. The US also helped him during the Iran War out of pragmatism ... Khomeini was holding Americans hostage and threatening to disrupt tanker traffic in the Persian Gulf. The CIA had no role in Saddam's internal rise to power between 1972-1979.


    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. -- Marine Corps General James 'Chaos' Mattis

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    Re: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Ok, you can move the goal posts thus. I don't believe I said that the US was in love with Saddam Hussein. Nor any other dictators throughout the course of time that have been used to advance US corporate interests. My point was simply that from an early age, the US/CIA was there to help Saddam's climb to power in Iraq, and continued to use him, so long as it was beneficial to US corporate interests, regardless of how that faired for the citizens of Iraq.
    Which "US Corporate interests" are you referring to, how are they different from US interests, and what evidence do you have to support your charges?

    The fact that you have the CIA supporting an unknown 22 year-old Iraqi in a rise to power suggests you're relying more on conspiracy blogs rather than legitimate news sources. As you know, any errors previous administrations may have made in support of Saddam Hussein of Iraq were corrected when George Bush had him removed, tried by the Iraqi justice system, and then introduced democracy to the nation for the first time in its history.

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