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Thread: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

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    Re: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    Iraq was actually stable before the US Military got there. I don't recall there being a terrorist problem, either. Or any viable threat to America.
    ______________

    It was stable when I was there in '73 & hitch hiked/walked across the Trans-Syrian desert, from North to South & into Iran without witnessing demonstrations, militancy or experiencing any hostile treatment .

    The only times I was "kidnapped" was by friendly Iraqis who insisted on paying for my meals or that I join them for family dinners, meet their friends or allow them to show me some of the more obscure archeological sites.

    There was no hostility toward America or Americans, only curiosity about life in America, U.S. Mid East policy, American music, cars etc.



    Recent sentiments of the IRANIAN people toward Westerners are reportedly similar to those I felt in Iraq

    “Iran is the most charming country on Earth”
    John Simpson: Iran is the most charming country on Earth - Telegraph

    EXCERPT "What you would encounter is a genuine delight to see you: a distinctly old-fashioned affection for westerners, who have vanished from everyday life in Iran. Eating in a Tehran restaurant can sometimes be a trial: so many people want to greet you and indeed pay for your meal."CONTINUED

    The British author (John Simpson) relates his experience at a "Death To Britain/Thatcher" demonstrating that hostile rhetoric from Iranian clerics is not to be taken seriously:

    [Same Article]

    EXCERPT "I weaved my way through the crowd, smiling and explaining that I was a Brit, and they opened up a pathway for me, shaking hands and bowing.
    I finally reached the ringmaster, a professional demonstrator who was beating his chest, the spittle shooting from his mouth in his anti-British fervour. “Welcome, welcome to Iran, sir,” he said, and actually kissed my hand. It went down well on the news that night, I promise you."CONTINUED


    So, apparently, there is more anti Iranian sentiment by poorly informed Americans than there is serious anti American sentiment from Iranians.

    The bellicose "Death to America/Israel/Britain etc" is meaningless rhetoric


    Thanks

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    Re: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    Iraq was actually stable before the US Military got there. I don't recall there being a terrorist problem, either. Or any viable threat to America.
    Iraq was 'stable' under Saddam Hussein? Is that your claim? It seems you really don't recall the history of the region.

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    Re: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

    Quote Originally Posted by B'smith View Post
    ______________

    It was stable when I was there in '73 & hitch hiked/walked across the Trans-Syrian desert, from North to South & into Iran without witnessing demonstrations, militancy or experiencing any hostile treatment .

    The only times I was "kidnapped" was by friendly Iraqis who insisted on paying for my meals or that I join them for family dinners, meet their friends or allow them to show me some of the more obscure archeological sites.

    There was no hostility toward America or Americans, only curiosity about life in America, U.S. Mid East policy, American music, cars etc.



    Recent sentiments of the IRANIAN people toward Westerners are reportedly similar to those I felt in Iraq

    “Iran is the most charming country on Earth”
    John Simpson: Iran is the most charming country on Earth - Telegraph

    EXCERPT "What you would encounter is a genuine delight to see you: a distinctly old-fashioned affection for westerners, who have vanished from everyday life in Iran. Eating in a Tehran restaurant can sometimes be a trial: so many people want to greet you and indeed pay for your meal."CONTINUED

    The British author (John Simpson) relates his experience at a "Death To Britain/Thatcher" demonstrating that hostile rhetoric from Iranian clerics is not to be taken seriously:

    [Same Article]

    EXCERPT "I weaved my way through the crowd, smiling and explaining that I was a Brit, and they opened up a pathway for me, shaking hands and bowing.
    I finally reached the ringmaster, a professional demonstrator who was beating his chest, the spittle shooting from his mouth in his anti-British fervour. “Welcome, welcome to Iran, sir,” he said, and actually kissed my hand. It went down well on the news that night, I promise you."CONTINUED


    So, apparently, there is more anti Iranian sentiment by poorly informed Americans than there is serious anti American sentiment from Iranians.

    The bellicose "Death to America/Israel/Britain etc" is meaningless rhetoric. Thanks
    Of course 1973 in Iran, while under the Shah, was a long while ago.

    It is generally agreed that Iranian words are not to be trusted but it may also be prudent to take their 'meaningless rhetoric' seriously.

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    Re: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Iraq was 'stable' under Saddam Hussein? Is that your claim? It seems you really don't recall the history of the region.
    Yes, it was stable. That's my claim. And lets remember that Saddam was facilitated to power by the US as a response to Iran. Now Iran owns Iraq, and did so before Obama.

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    Re: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    And lets remember that Saddam was facilitated to power by the US as a response to Iran.
    Saddam's rise to power in Iraq (1976-1979) was purely an internal matter. The July 1979 coup was the final touch.

    It wasn't until 1982 that Western/Arab nations began aiding Saddam in his war against Khomeini.

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    Re: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    Yes, it was stable. That's my claim. And lets remember that Saddam was facilitated to power by the US as a response to Iran. Now Iran owns Iraq, and did so before Obama.
    ____________________

    Yugoslavia was "stable" under Tito also who was widely considered a benevolent dictator.

    "Stable" is, of course, a relative term & not an ideal condition if you're among the enemies of the ruler/dictator in power. Your recollection of history is just fine.

    Who could forget that photo of Saddam & Cheney hand in hand?

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    Re: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    Yes, it was stable. That's my claim. And lets remember that Saddam was facilitated to power by the US as a response to Iran. Now Iran owns Iraq, and did so before Obama.
    Indeed,

    US intelligence helped Saddam's Ba`ath Party seize power for the first time in 1963. Evidence suggests that Saddam was on the CIA payroll as early as 1959, when he participated in a failed assassination attempt against Iraqi strongman Abd al-Karim Qassem. In the 1980s, the US and Britain backed Saddam in the war against Iran, giving Iraq arms, money, satellite intelligence, and even chemical & bio-weapon precursors. As many as 90 US military advisors supported Iraqi forces and helped pick targets for Iraqi air and missile attacks.

    https://www.globalpolicy.org/iraq-co...ss-regime.html
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    Yes, it was stable. That's my claim. And lets remember that Saddam was facilitated to power by the US as a response to Iran. Now Iran owns Iraq, and did so before Obama.
    Since when does genocide, invading neighbors, rape rooms, the seeking of nuclear weapons, and breaking international laws mean a dictatorship is "stable". You must have an odd definition of the word.

    Iran owned Iraq before Obama came along? When was that?

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    Re: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Of course 1973 in Iran, while under the Shah, was a long while ago.

    It is generally agreed that Iranian words are not to be trusted but it may also be prudent to take their 'meaningless rhetoric' seriously.
    When you say "generally agreed", what do you mean?

    Do you mean "generally agreed" by people who hate Iran but have never been there & know nothing about Iran except what they're fed by a bias US media?

    Iran has repeatedly reached out to the US to improve relations, especially under Pres. Khatami. Iran has also offered to help with America's deep water oil rig leaks & natural disasters.

    Americans have only heard the speeches of Iranian leaders after they've been given a deliberately mistranslated, negative "spin". That infamous "Wipe Israel off of the face of the map" is still believed & robotically regurgitated by many Americans when the actual translation was: "Zionism will eventually disappear with the sands of time"

    Have you ever taken time to read an accurate translation , in the full text of one of Ahmadinejad's U.N. speeches? They are not tantrums as is generally assumed.

    Instead, they contain reasonable calls for an even handed US Foreign policy, the folly of military conflict & the necessity for a just & peaceful Palestinian - Israel resolution.


    The meaningless, left-over, Revolutionary rhetoric behind "Death to America / Israel / Imperialism" etc is a feature of the same cultural hyperbole as in Mid East marketplaces.

    When a M. E. merchant says "His family will starve" if he doesn't get X price, he doesn't mean it, knows you don't believe it & doesn't expect you to.
    The hyperbolic marketplace haggling is a cultural feature that doesn't take place in US / Western grocery stores.

    It's the same with "Death to America". The speaker doesn't mean it & doesn't expect his audience to believe he means it literally.

    Of course Iran (like the US etc) has its thugs, Secret Prisons, & irrational hostilities. It has also maintained a secure & apparently content Jewish community that choses to stay in Iran.

    What is damaging to US credibility is the egregious double standard that exists between ignoring Israel's extensive Nuclear arsenal while imposing draconian sanctions on Iran's non-arsenal which is a blatant hypocrisy that is not lost on Iran the rest of the World.

    Thanks
    Last edited by B'smith; 03-30-15 at 04:58 PM.

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    Re: Khamenei calls ‘Death to America’ as Kerry hails progress on nuke deal

    Quote Originally Posted by B'smith View Post
    When you say "generally agreed", what do you mean?

    Do you mean "generally agreed" by people who hate Iran but have never been there & know nothing about Iran except what they're fed by a bias US media?

    Iran has repeatedly reached out to the US to improve relations, especially under Pres. Khatami. Iran has also offered to help with America's deep water oil rig leaks & natural disasters.

    Americans have only heard the speeches of Iranian leaders after they've been given a deliberately mistranslated, negative "spin". That infamous "Wipe Israel off of the face of the map" is still believed & robotically regurgitated by many Americans when the actual translation was: "Zionism will eventually disappear with the sands of time"

    Have you ever taken time to read an accurate translation , in the full text of one of Ahmadinejad's U.N. speeches? They are not tantrums as is "generally agreed".

    Instead, they contain reasonable calls for an even handed US Foreign policy, the folly of military conflict & the necessity for a just & peaceful Palestinian - Israel resolution.


    The meaningless, left-over, Revolutionary rhetoric behind "Death to America / Israel / Imperialism" etc is a feature of the same cultural hyperbole as in Mid East marketplaces.

    When a M. E. merchant says "His family will starve" if he doesn't get X price, he doesn't mean it, knows you don't believe it & doesn't expect you to.
    The hyperbolic marketplace haggling is a cultural feature that doesn't take place in US / Western grocery stores.

    It's the same with "Death to America". The speaker doesn't mean it & doesn't expect his audience to believe he means it literally. Of course Iran (like the US etc) has its thugs, Secret Prisons, & irrational hostilities toward Gays. It has also maintained a secure & apparently content Jewish community that choses to stay in Iran. Meanwhile, the egregious double standard that exists between ignoring Israel's extensive Nuclear arsenal while imposing draconian sanctions on Iran's non-arsenal is an egregious hypocrisy that is not lost on Iran the rest of the World. Thanks
    When you were there while the Shah was in power there were over 100= 150,000 Jews in Iran. Now there are less than 9,000.

    If "Death to the Israel" or "Death To America" is hyperbole, why repeat it? Are they so unsophisticated that they don't understand the significance of these words? If that is the case, as you claim, then how in the world can we expect these backward people to possess nuclear weapons?

    Sharing a lunch with some Iranians over 40 years ago was probably a wonderful experience but the world is having to deal with the Iran of today.

    https://www.google.ca/search?q=iran+...g&ved=0CBwQsAQ

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