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U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

Sure we do. Most eloquently stated in the movie Cool Hand Luke. "Don't piss down my back and tell me its raining." That about sums up the trickle down theory.

That quote would also apply to Obama's promises about keeping your doctor and insurance and the Democrats claims that these policies would be " affordable ".

If if supply side doesn't works what does ?

Just curious to see if you know anything othet than simple talking points
 
trust me, man, the health care distribution model was ****ed up long before the ACA. you wouldn't have traded for it then, either.

Here in Canada, we're actually moving more and more towards the US model of private entities delivering healthcare services to the highest bidder. It's currently against the Canada Health Act which requires that no private, for profit, entity can provide services covered by the universal healthcare system. That is currently being challenged in the courts as contrary to our constitution and it's likely to be a successful challenge. At that point, Canada will become open for business and it wouldn't surprise me if many American healthcare service providers expand into Canada in the next decade. This is all because our single payer system has badly failed due to top heavy bureaucratic government management and gross waste of taxpayer dollars on inefficiencies.
 
Ontario has and continues to accept the vast majority of all refugee claimants entering Canada. The federal government, several years back, passed legislation defunding all but the very basic in healthcare coverage for this group of people until such time as their claims have been adjudicated and accepted. Ontario, losing the federal funding, decided to slap the Ontario taxpayers with those hundreds of $millions, if not $billions in costs. We have people here claiming refugee status and immediately getting their teeth fixed and other medical procedures taken care of before they get kicked out of the country. I'm sure the system is highlighted in travel brochures around the world.

We also have extremely generous healthcare coverage for those on welfare and the working poor, far in excess of what coverage the average Ontarian gets - I wouldn't be surprised if that's a major factor in your Province's costs being lower. But hey, we've had liberals in power in Ontario for 12 years, doubling our Provincial debt with no end in sight, so it wouldn't be hard for another Province to out preform us.



The NDP here like to hold Ontario up as the statistical example of what we should be.....

The package available to immigrants is very shallow here, and no one gets dental coverage of any kind.

Having had some experience with the system as a journalist, the big cost savings we have is in lower administrative costs. When the socialists got kicked out in 2000, we had hospital administrators in numbers at three levels and two operating authorities for every hospital.

I would like to see more spent, especially on mental illness. Only the very screwed up get any kind of effective treatment, and then the waiting lists can be years.

It is not the Ontario I knew and loved. I have to say I sometimes long to return, have some snow fr a change, hard wood trees, flat land and all that.....and the cost of living here is worse than Toronto. But my aunt died of cancer there, she was improperly diagnosed and because no cancer treatment in Kitchener, Waterloo, Cambridge, by the time she was seen in London it was inoperable. If that happened here in the land of Terry Fox it would possibly be a government killer. There are two things where you get instant treatment, show signs of any cancer and mention a possible heart attack. I was in a very bad car accident where the EMT's mis-diagnosed, said I had had a possible heart attack as cause of the accident. Nine hours in emerg to test for that, and was in front of a cardiologist in five days. But if you suffer from depression, you may never get effective treatment.
 
Here in Canada, we're actually moving more and more towards the US model of private entities delivering healthcare services to the highest bidder. It's currently against the Canada Health Act which requires that no private, for profit, entity can provide services covered by the universal healthcare system. That is currently being challenged in the courts as contrary to our constitution and it's likely to be a successful challenge. At that point, Canada will become open for business and it wouldn't surprise me if many American healthcare service providers expand into Canada in the next decade. This is all because our single payer system has badly failed due to top heavy bureaucratic government management and gross waste of taxpayer dollars on inefficiencies.

if Canada actually adopts anything close to the US health care distribution system, then you guys are making a massive mistake.
 
if Canada actually adopts anything close to the US health care distribution system, then you guys are making a massive mistake.

If they copy ObamaCare, then yes they're making a huge mistake.

Single payer in America means that a massive Government entity that has proven itself to be highly unethical would have total control over the Healthcare of US citizens.

We've seen how this Government treats vets and we've seen that there's little to no accountability or recourse for the people who where left waiting for treatment.

The left attacks the private health care industry and Physicians with charges of unethical conduct but ignores the huge ethical lapse thats at the center of ObamaCare.

Single payer would be a disaster.
 
If they copy ObamaCare, then yes they're making a huge mistake.

Single payer in America means that a massive Government entity that has proven itself to be highly unethical would have total control over the Healthcare of US citizens.

We've seen how this Government treats vets and we've seen that there's little to no accountability or recourse for the people who where left waiting for treatment.

The left attacks the private health care industry and Physicians with charges of unethical conduct but ignores the huge ethical lapse thats at the center of ObamaCare.

Single payer would be a disaster.

yeah, a disaster.

fig-kirkegaard20090310-1.jpg
 

You have a graph for that shows the impact of Single payers in America ?

In a Country of over 300 Million that cannot for some reason secure its Southern Border ?

Americans have already been lied to by Democrats who thought they had a better plan. Why on earth would we trust them with something so daunting and massive as single payer system ?
 
You have a graph for that shows the impact of Single payers in America ?

In a Country of over 300 Million that cannot for some reason secure its Southern Border ?

Americans have already been lied to by Democrats who thought they had a better plan. Why on earth would we trust them with something so daunting and massive as single payer system ?

the ACA isn't single payer. single payer actually works in other first world countries.
 
the ACA isn't single payer. single payer actually works in other first world countries.
Well, 'works'. It's not a panacea, but it's sure a lot better than how we tackle health care today!

You have a graph for that shows the impact of Single payers in America ?
In a Country of over 300 Million that cannot for some reason secure its Southern Border ?
Americans have already been lied to by Democrats who thought they had a better plan. Why on earth would we trust them with something so daunting and massive as single payer system ?
There's political opposition to "securing" the US-Mexico border, myself and other fiscal hawks (it's expensive) and free-movement libertarians (e.g., folks who live on the border and don't want to stand in line for 3+ hours waiting to go to a store on the other side of the city). Not having a border fence is not a demonstration of dysfunction; it's a demonstration of meeting halfway between two different interests in a democratic country.

Second point. First payer systems are common. If all of these poorer-than-the-US, corrupt and even more dysfunctional countries can cobble together a single-payer system and have it "work," American exceptionalism can do it too.
 
the ACA isn't single payer. single payer actually works in other first world countries.

So ethical lapses are only bad when you can attribute them to the private sector ?

See when a private Corporation or company does something unethical the consumer has some semblence of recourse depending on the severity of the lapse.

From the appealing to the Federal Trade Commission to just chosing the never do bussiness there again the Consumer has options.

If the Democrats make promises they cannot keep and manage to push through single payer there is nothing the average American can do.

Its irresponsible to give Government that level of power but it is the height of irresponsibility to give the new Democrat party this power.

They're aadvertising that they will not be held accountable and you still want to put your trust in them.

Wow....not me.
 
if Canada actually adopts anything close to the US health care distribution system, then you guys are making a massive mistake.

Lots of Canadians go to the US for healthcare, whether because the service isn't offered here or because the service is offered here but the wait will kill you.
 
if Canada actually adopts anything close to the US health care distribution system, then you guys are making a massive mistake.

Can. Not. Happen.


Any politician who so much as mentions 'health care reform' will be instantly stoned, vilified and sent to Baffin Island to count pine trees. There are three things Canadians will not ever discuss: abortion; health care reform beyond throwing more money at it, and the constitution.

MP's who have mentioned abortion are pretty much history if remembered at all, since a guy named Brian Mulroney no one has dared mention constitution, Quebec's roll or even a mention a lake in Quebec whose name rhymes with leech. There was a conservative candidate here in the Vancouver area who mentioned health care reform, no one has seen him in a decade.
 
If they copy ObamaCare, then yes they're making a huge mistake.

Single payer in America means that a massive Government entity that has proven itself to be highly unethical would have total control over the Healthcare of US citizens.

We've seen how this Government treats vets and we've seen that there's little to no accountability or recourse for the people who where left waiting for treatment.

The left attacks the private health care industry and Physicians with charges of unethical conduct but ignores the huge ethical lapse thats at the center of ObamaCare.

Single payer would be a disaster.



No, see above.

However, I happen to know that some Canadian health economists are on contract with Ottawa to study and watch Obamacare - the real numbers not the politicized ones, to see if it is a reasonable means to expand health coverage to dental and, maybe pharmacy costs. However, I suggest it will be a quarter century at least until Canadians will even listen to anything that could be compared to Obamacare.

Last week, the headline story on local news at 6 was how American doctors, especially specialists, are giving up their new practices to move to Canada because of Obamacare....they had two examples.

Obamcare has become the evil part of America, 'for profit' in medicine and insurance does not work here, five or six out of ten provinces have provincially owned motor insurance
 
Lots of Canadians go to the US for healthcare, whether because the service isn't offered here or because the service is offered here but the wait will kill you.

and some simply because they can...even Prime Ministers who have to lie about where they were when a king dies....

And some provincial governments, mine, will fly serious cases to Seattle and San Fransisco if there are serious back logs in certain areas, heart being a big one.

However, if you want hip surgery, you will be in pain for a year or more
 
So ethical lapses are only bad when you can attribute them to the private sector ?

See when a private Corporation or company does something unethical the consumer has some semblence of recourse depending on the severity of the lapse.

From the appealing to the Federal Trade Commission to just chosing the never do bussiness there again the Consumer has options.

If the Democrats make promises they cannot keep and manage to push through single payer there is nothing the average American can do.

Its irresponsible to give Government that level of power but it is the height of irresponsibility to give the new Democrat party this power.

They're aadvertising that they will not be held accountable and you still want to put your trust in them.

Wow....not me.

last i checked, even the Democrats weren't seriously pushing for single payer. they had their chance, and they went with a for profit half measure that does almost nothing to force down costs and which leaves the stupid employer-specific health insurance model in place.
 
Lots of Canadians go to the US for healthcare, whether because the service isn't offered here or because the service is offered here but the wait will kill you.

and are you going to mention that this is often covered by the Canadian health care system?

sorry, but you guys would be nuts to swap health care systems with us. like many other things in America, if you're rich, it's pretty good. if your really poor, you might be able to get medicaid, which is also decent. if you're the wrong kind of poor or middle class, though, do not get sick. you're the one whose paying for everything, and they will bleed you dry and sell the corpse.
 
Lots of Canadians go to the US for healthcare, whether because the service isn't offered here or because the service is offered here but the wait will kill you.

And a lot of americans go to Mexico and Thailand for medical care.
 
Can. Not. Happen.


Any politician who so much as mentions 'health care reform' will be instantly stoned, vilified and sent to Baffin Island to count pine trees. There are three things Canadians will not ever discuss: abortion; health care reform beyond throwing more money at it, and the constitution.

MP's who have mentioned abortion are pretty much history if remembered at all, since a guy named Brian Mulroney no one has dared mention constitution, Quebec's roll or even a mention a lake in Quebec whose name rhymes with leech. There was a conservative candidate here in the Vancouver area who mentioned health care reform, no one has seen him in a decade.

good. if i were a Canadian and somebody proposed throwing me to the wolves, i'd definitely vote for the other guy, too.
 
That quote would also apply to Obama's promises about keeping your doctor and insurance and the Democrats claims that these policies would be " affordable ".

If if supply side doesn't works what does ?

Just curious to see if you know anything othet than simple talking points

It was an attempt to lower the increase in medical insurance and costs which it has done to a degree. It was also an attempt to get more people covered rather than have emergency rooms overflowing and have them seek out more preventive care which is cheaper. The funding solution was to have a larger base hence the mandate. Quite reasonable really, just like car insurance. If you drive you need car insurance, if you need medical you get medical insurance but not just when you get sick. The employer provided system was getting quite a bit more expensive there was also no coverage for preexisting conditions and individual plans were cost prohibited for many. I prefer a single based payer like Canada but cons would object so he tried a quasi market based approach. What's your solution?
 
and are you going to mention that this is often covered by the Canadian health care system?

sorry, but you guys would be nuts to swap health care systems with us. like many other things in America, if you're rich, it's pretty good. if your really poor, you might be able to get medicaid, which is also decent. if you're the wrong kind of poor or middle class, though, do not get sick. you're the one whose paying for everything, and they will bleed you dry and sell the corpse.

No, it's not covered by the healthcare system. If the service is offered under the Canadian program, the government will not fund it if you jump the line and seek the procedure in the US. They will fund it if they deem that they cannot offer the procedure or a similar one here but first you have to go through a bureaucratic nightmare to get that prior approval. We've had lots of cases, even young children going blind, whose parents have had to pay for the US care themselves. We have some people who have been denied and went to the US anyway to save their lives and then come back to Canada and sued to be reimbursed.

But hey, the grass is always greener on the other side.
 
ok. i'll happily trade you our ****ed up system for yours. if we could, would you?

full disclosure : i paid almost two grand because i cut my thumb a couple years ago. they superglued it shut, and gave me a tetanus shot. forty five minutes. the best part is that two companies sent me bills for the same service. i had to pay both. i have insurance.

please say that you would trade health care systems. i have many more examples, and i am willing to hash them out with you.

It sounds like you got ripped off. It does not sound like the norm. Did you go to the ER? An urgent care center? Or your primary care doc? With insurance, you should have been stuck with nothing more then whatever your copay was for the treatment and meds if they prescribed any.(At least prior to obamacare).
 
Sure as ****, this Canadian certainly would not.

BTW, my 85 year-old dad -- who's had cancer 3 times -- just got a new hip last week. He had to wait about 4 months.

No death panels for him.

In the private sector in the US, there are no waiting periods for hip implants. Perhaps it's different on Medicare.
 
like three hundred a month and maybe ten grand for a serious injury thousands?

i never argued that Canadian health care was free. i argued that most of them wouldn't trade health care systems with us.

Nor would any senior citizen who is on medicare trade it as they paid into it all their lives. John's point is that he has to pay for the Canadian system whether he uses it or not. When I become qualified for medicare in less then three years, I will go ahead and sign up for it, even though I will likely keep using VA Healthcare as my primary care option. I think Medicare is a horrible government Ponzi scheme that I should not have been forced to pay into. However I am going to get at least some return on all the money I paid into it. My point is that asking anyone if they would trade a government run system that they are forced to pay into is a bit of a loaded question.
 
Sure we do. Most eloquently stated in the movie Cool Hand Luke. "Don't piss down my back and tell me its raining." That about sums up the trickle down theory.

You don't even understand the meaning of the Cool Hand Luke statement. Your problem is that you are more into rhetoric then reality. If you understood the concept of trickle down economics, you would easily work out that it has always been a part of any economy based on free enterprise.
 
trust me, man, the health care distribution model was ****ed up long before the ACA. you wouldn't have traded for it then, either.

If I were a Canadian, I would trade....however I would make they trade by emigrating to the US(Prior to Obamacare). I would not pay the healthcare taxes the Canadians are paying.
 
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