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Thread: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

  1. #301
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    Re: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    And don't forget, American Democrats like to claim "it's free".
    Easy to confuse "out of pocket" with "never had in the first place".
    "Small people talk about people, average people talk about events, great people talk about ideas" Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    No disrespect CJ, but the more I hear, the more I wouldn't trade MY plan for yours. The more I hear there is no "Canadian system" but very different provincial systems. The last I looked BC's health care costs were about 42% of overall budget, and even the raving nut bars in the NDP aren't yelling beyond the usual bellyaching. In my time here I have never needed nor known anyone with private insurance other than pharmacy coverage. There is zero wait list for any form of cancer treatment, no wait for a diabetic to see a specialist etc., all issues my Ontario cousins say they face.
    Ontario has and continues to accept the vast majority of all refugee claimants entering Canada. The federal government, several years back, passed legislation defunding all but the very basic in healthcare coverage for this group of people until such time as their claims have been adjudicated and accepted. Ontario, losing the federal funding, decided to slap the Ontario taxpayers with those hundreds of $millions, if not $billions in costs. We have people here claiming refugee status and immediately getting their teeth fixed and other medical procedures taken care of before they get kicked out of the country. I'm sure the system is highlighted in travel brochures around the world.

    We also have extremely generous healthcare coverage for those on welfare and the working poor, far in excess of what coverage the average Ontarian gets - I wouldn't be surprised if that's a major factor in your Province's costs being lower. But hey, we've had liberals in power in Ontario for 12 years, doubling our Provincial debt with no end in sight, so it wouldn't be hard for another Province to out preform us.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

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    Re: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard View Post
    These are not the same thing.

    Saying 10 million people currently in employer-sponsored insurance are going to lose it is not the same as saying ESI coverage in a decade would have grown more in an ACA-less alternate universe than it will in this one.

    The CBO predicts year-over-year ESI will increase under the ACA. They just think it would increase more in the ACA-less universe (understandable since such a universe doesn't have a viable alternative to ESI). That doesn't imply the loss of what people now have.



    By and large companies are not dropping coverage, they aren't planning to, nor is the CBO predicting they will. So no, your point doesn't stand. It's mildly mind-boggling to me that you persist in this nonsense in the face of the overwhelming actual evidence of what's happening.
    It's not mind boggling.

    It's standard Conservative thinking, or what passes for it these days. Refusal to look at evidence that is right before them (ACA, global warming, military action in the Middle East, etc etc) and sticking to the myth no matter what has become a point of pride.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Re: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard View Post
    If you think the subsidies aren't generous enough, get involved in a Families USA letter-writing campaign to Congress or something. You'll fine no shortage of left-leaning groups that share your view.



    I'm not the one complaining about deductibles...

    That was you.

    Anyway, that was my point in posing the question. You'll argue from the left, you'll argue from the right--you just flip a switch between posts. Or even within the same post at times.
    I'm not complaining, I'm just exposing some of the fallacies of one if the if not the worst pieces of legislation ever passed.

    Give the Democrats a chance to do something without Political opposition from a opposing view point and they give us the Affordable Care Act. ( its in the title and everything )

    Lol....how would they know whether it was going to be affordable ? I mean they think we're currently in the middle of a recovery !

    They shouldn't meddle in things that they do not understand, namely the free market.

    They couldn't have known the present and futurure individual financial situations of hundreds of Millions of Americans and constructed a product that would have catered to the individual consumers needs, but the Free market could.

    And yes I'm sure there are plenty on the left who would love to have single payer but not me.

    How could anyone advocate single payer after what happened at the VA ?

    If the Aemrican Governments treats our Vets that bad can you imagine how they'll treat the common citizen ?

    And how could we afford single payer whith a wide open southern border and a Administration thats trying it best to turn Millions of Illegal immigrants into Voters ?

    Why on earth would anyone give that kind of power to a Government who refuses to honor FOIA and Oversight Committee document request and ignores substantial over reaches like ths IRSs targeting of American citizens ?

    Central planning and massive Government intervention leads to fraud, waste and corruption that makes ENRON look like shoplifting at a local convenience store.

    Its just another short sighted Left wing initiave and we should know by now NOT to give these people that kind of influence.

  5. #305
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    Re: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard View Post
    These are not the same thing.

    Saying 10 million people currently in employer-sponsored insurance are going to lose it is not the same as saying ESI coverage in a decade would have grown more in an ACA-less alternate universe than it will in this one.

    The CBO predicts year-over-year ESI will increase under the ACA. They just think it would increase more in the ACA-less universe (understandable since such a universe doesn't have a viable alternative to ESI). That doesn't imply the loss of what people now have.



    By and large companies are not dropping coverage, they aren't planning to, nor is the CBO predicting they will. So no, your point doesn't stand. It's mildly mind-boggling to me that you persist in this nonsense in the face of the overwhelming actual evidence of what's happening.
    You probably haven't a clue what my original point was as it relates to the OP, since you came in late and tried to divert the conversation into what you wanted to discuss, and so you feel confident in dismissing what you don't even know.

    And your comment "by and large, companies are not dropping coverage" has a best before date. According to surveys done, many are planning on doing so in the future or taking other measures to ensure their employee benefit costs don't rise. Here's one example:

    Forty percent of U.S. companies to alter health care plans, drop coverage, due to Obamacare - NaturalNews.com

    So again, my original point, which I stand by, is that some companies will be holding onto cash, not investing in employment or capital, is related to the uncertainty of what will happen with the ACA as we move forward and what will happen after the 2016 election when Obama is gone.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

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    Re: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    And your comment "by and large, companies are not dropping coverage" has a best before date. According to surveys done, many are planning on doing so in the future or taking other measures to ensure their employee benefit costs don't rise. Here's one example:

    Forty percent of U.S. companies to alter health care plans, drop coverage, due to Obamacare - NaturalNews.com
    You're supporting your discredited case with a source that literally contains the line: "Also, 98 percent of the employers said they don't have definite plans to discontinue company health insurance plans next year or in 2015 and dump their workers into state exchanges."

    Good lord.

    All that was ever going to happen to employers under the ACA has already happened. And as one would predict (based on the design of the law), it didn't change much of anything about employer-based coverage, other than a few extra benefits and consumer protections for employees.
    Last edited by Greenbeard; 03-29-15 at 05:53 PM.

  7. #307
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    Re: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    I'm not complaining, I'm just exposing some of the fallacies of one if the if not the worst pieces of legislation ever passed.
    That isn't a fallacy. Restoring market-based dynamics to the health care markets (on both the insurance and care sides) is one of the goals of the law. That's part of what deductibles do.

    I think you've been hoodwinked by those on the right who told you for years that the ACA was some kind of surrogate for single-payer. It isn't. Quite the opposite.

    Yes, individuals still have to be cost-conscious under it and make financially responsible decisions for themselves. That's kind of a cornerstone of any market-based strategy.

    Like I said, if you want to argue the Families USA perspective, be my guest--but take a long look in the mirror at some point and figure out whatever it is you actually believe.

  8. #308
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    Re: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard View Post
    You're supporting your discredited case with a source that literally contains the line: "Also, 98 percent of the employers said they don't have definite plans to discontinue company health insurance plans next year or in 2015 and dump their workers into state exchanges."

    Good lord.

    All that was ever going to happen to employers under the ACA has already happened. And as one would predict (based on the design of the law), it didn't change much of anything about employer-based coverage, other than a few extra benefits and consumer protections for employees.
    You can't possible be that dense, so the only alternative is you're purposely being obtuse.

    I'll play along and cherry pick this comment from the link: Also, according to Towers Watson, the firm conducting the survey, 60 percent of companies look at private health insurance exchanges as one way of controlling their healthcare and administrative costs by dumping their employees into the state-run health insurance pools called for under the law.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

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    Re: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    You can't possible be that dense, so the only alternative is you're purposely being obtuse.

    I'll play along and cherry pick this comment from the link: Also, according to Towers Watson, the firm conducting the survey, 60 percent of companies look at private health insurance exchanges as one way of controlling their healthcare and administrative costs by dumping their employees into the state-run health insurance pools called for under the law.
    I realize you're not from the United States so you don't understand our markets. And thus are obviously confused by poorly worded articles.

    Private insurance exchanges are not the ACA. They're a defined contribution option for large employers. They're an alternative benefit structure option for employers who want to offer health benefits to employees--that's the opposite of dumping.

    As an aside, this is probably my biggest pet peeve here: you've got strong, immovable opinions on these issues, yet zero knowledge of the issues, health system, or facts at hand. At least you've got an excuse, though, you're Canadian. I'm not sure what some of the other guys' excuses are.

  10. #310
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    Re: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard View Post
    I realize you're not from the United States so you don't understand our markets. And thus are obviously confused by poorly worded articles.

    Private insurance exchanges are not the ACA. They're a defined contribution option for large employers. They're an alternative benefit structure option for employers who want to offer health benefits to employees--that's the opposite of dumping.

    As an aside, this is probably my biggest pet peeve here: you've got strong, immovable opinions on these issues, yet zero knowledge of the issues, health system, or facts at hand. At least you've got an excuse, though, you're Canadian. I'm not sure what some of the other guys' excuses are.
    Do you ever actually read an entire sentence or post or just cherry pick? Did you actually read the sentence I quoted that you responded to?

    It said, in conclusion "one way of controlling their healthcare and administrative costs by dumping their employees into the state-run health insurance pools called for under the law." Do you understand what those words mean? One way of reducing costs is to dump their employees into the ACA state run exchanges and pay the penalties, if necessary.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

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