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Thread: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

  1. #291
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    Re: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Nice job with the bait and switch. I didn't realize getting stitches was a terminal illness - nor did I think that a colonoscopy was deadly either or that either one could bankrupt you. I had no idea the American medical system was so ****ed up. You've got serious problems in the US if people are dying and suffering bankruptcy getting stitches and colonoscopies.

    As for the Canadian system, the government funds less than 50% of all healthcare services and products consumed by Canadians annually. It's why virtually all medium and large businesses fund supplemental health insurance and why many who aren't lucky enough to have such support purchase additional healthcare insurance themselves.

    Would I trade systems - no, I wouldn't - partly because it's the only system I've ever known and partly because if the percentage of taxes (here in Ontario, 50% of all government revenue is spent on healthcare) I pay to support healthcare were eliminated and I had to buy insurance myself, my initial costs would go down significantly but the government would soon eat up that vacated tax room with other mindless taxation and spending.

    And finally, there are indeed many people losing homes and savings funding healthcare services and drugs that are not covered by the single payer plan.
    Good point on why you would not trade. Those of us in the USA who express that Social Security and Medicare are poorly run government Ponzi schemes are criticized by many on the left who call us hypocrites when we do not turn down the benefits when retirement age comes.....those benefits that we were forced to pay into our entire working lives. Personally, I would be delighted to opt out if the government would give me a check for every dollar I was forced to put into those systems plus interest.

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    Re: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard View Post
    "Affordability" here means a threshold--an on-ramp to financial assistance for those in need or an off-ramp from the individual mandate. Consumers still shop around and choose the plan that's best for them. If they don't have an employer who makes that choice for them, that is.



    And we've reached the point where the right becomes the left and attacks high-deductible plans. Half your arguments come from the Chamber of Commerce, the other half come from Families USA.

    Let me ask you this: when the GOP repealed the ACA's $2,000 limit on deductibles for small employer plans (opening them up to higher deductibles than that), were you for or against that move and why?
    Yes and its still a subjective definition.

    How would the Democrats know whether or not the inclusion of Subsidies makes their product affordable to the average American ?

    They wouldn't.

    How would the Democrats know whether or not premiums and out of pocket cost would spike a year after the laws implementation ? How would they know whether or not Household median income would recover to its 2007 levels ?

    They wouldn't

    Actually, the Democrats DID know. Anyone with a brain knew this would drive up cost and that the tax increases were going to be passed down to the Consumers.

    Conservatives sure knew. No the Democrats and their supporters would have to know the specific financial situation of every American and would have had to know that Median income levels were going to rise with rising out of pocket and premium cost

    And consumers have " choices " ? Cosumers are mandated to buy a Government created product or pay a fine that increases every year.

    And I'm GLAD the GOP repealed the Democrats attempt at instituting price controls on a National scale.

    The Democrats were just trying to cover their asses KNOWING that the inevitable premium hikes of ObamaCare would make them look bad Politically.

    You want Prive Control's move to Venezuela. They're doing wonders their.

  3. #293
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    Re: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    and no, your costs wouldn't go down. my premium approaches three hundred a month for one person
    I really do marvel at people in the US who bemoan what they have and wish they had what Canada has, as an example. I highlighted the above from your statement because it's laughable to me. When I retired, almost 5 years ago, I had the option to continue my employer provided supplemental health insurance coverage at my own cost. Guess what? My supplemental insurance, for me, one person, was $380 monthly. That's to cover, with deductibles, limits and exclusions, the basics that our single payer system doesn't cover - dental, drugs, chiropractic, orthopedics, etc. etc. And that's on top of the $thousands I pay in taxes to support the basic system. And you're moaning because you pay $300 a month for the basics. Americans really need a reality check when it comes to healthcare and what others have.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

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    Re: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    How would the Democrats know whether or not the inclusion of Subsidies makes their product affordable to the average American ?
    If you think the subsidies aren't generous enough, get involved in a Families USA letter-writing campaign to Congress or something. You'll fine no shortage of left-leaning groups that share your view.

    And I'm GLAD the GOP repealed the Democrats attempt at instituting price controls on a National scale.

    The Democrats were just trying to cover their asses KNOWING that the inevitable premium hikes of ObamaCare would make them look bad Politically.

    You want Prive Control's move to Venezuela. They're doing wonders their.
    I'm not the one complaining about deductibles...

    That was you.

    Anyway, that was my point in posing the question. You'll argue from the left, you'll argue from the right--you just flip a switch between posts. Or even within the same post at times.

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    Re: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I really do marvel at people in the US who bemoan what they have and wish they had what Canada has, as an example. I highlighted the above from your statement because it's laughable to me. When I retired, almost 5 years ago, I had the option to continue my employer provided supplemental health insurance coverage at my own cost. Guess what? My supplemental insurance, for me, one person, was $380 monthly. That's to cover, with deductibles, limits and exclusions, the basics that our single payer system doesn't cover - dental, drugs, chiropractic, orthopedics, etc. etc. And that's on top of the $thousands I pay in taxes to support the basic system. And you're moaning because you pay $300 a month for the basics. Americans really need a reality check when it comes to healthcare and what others have.
    I have one simple guideline. When health insurance premiums surpass my monthly home mortgage bills, it is far too expensive. Prior to obamacare, I had a monthly premium of $250 a month with a $1200.00 deductible. Obamacare canceled that and the premium went up to nearly $700.00 with a deductible of $6000.00. I was not about to accept that. I signed up for VA (veterans)healthcare. If not for that, I would just be going without primary coverage and paying the fine every year until until Medicare kicks in. I do still carry supplemental insurance for vision and dental, however the cost is minimal....about a $7.00 deduction from each pay check.

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    Re: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I really do marvel at people in the US who bemoan what they have and wish they had what Canada has, as an example. I highlighted the above from your statement because it's laughable to me. When I retired, almost 5 years ago, I had the option to continue my employer provided supplemental health insurance coverage at my own cost. Guess what? My supplemental insurance, for me, one person, was $380 monthly. That's to cover, with deductibles, limits and exclusions, the basics that our single payer system doesn't cover - dental, drugs, chiropractic, orthopedics, etc. etc. And that's on top of the $thousands I pay in taxes to support the basic system. And you're moaning because you pay $300 a month for the basics. Americans really need a reality check when it comes to healthcare and what others have.
    Yea they DO like to refer to the Canadian Health Care system as a shining star of single payer health care.

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    Re: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard View Post
    No, that's not what the CBO said in January. What they did was compare their projections of enrollment in ESI under the ACA vs. what they think it would be in the absence of the ACA. They came up with these projections:

    Employer-based coverage under the ACA
    Year
    2010 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 2021 2022 2023 2024 2025
    Enrollment (in millions)
    150 156 156 153 155 155 156 156 155 157 157 157 157


    Employer-based coverage, no ACA
    Year 2010 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 2021 2022 2023 2024 2025
    Enrollment (in millions)
    150 156 158 160 163 164 165 165 165 166 166 166 166

    You'll note that neither scenario involves long-term losses.

    The number of people with employer-based coverage continues to grow in either scenario, the difference is that it grows faster in the no-ACA world. In the world we live in, more people will shop for their own plans independent of their employer as we go forward. The number of people with employer-based insurance doesn't fall.

    What those tables do not show is "10 million employees will lose their employer healthcare plans" (the ones they have now).

    (CBO's March 2015 update to these projections narrow the gap between these projections anyway).



    Again, you're mischaracterizing what they've said. From the CBO's blog Frequently Asked Questions About CBO’s Estimates of the Labor Market Effects of the Affordable Care Act


    Voluntary reductions in the amount of labor offered are not the same as "losing a significant percentage of their hours of work."



    That's the difference between the CBO's with-ACA/without-ACA estimates. There are now realistic alternatives to the employer-based coverage, which means in the future people will drift toward those alternatives. That's a natural, organic change over time, not the disruption or people being stripped of what they have that you've been implying.
    Sorry - take up the language usage problems you object to with the CBO. They clearly state, in the links provided within the links I provided above, that as a result of the ACA, 10 million people will go from employer funded health insurance plans to insurance exchanges or Medicaid. I can't decipher what percentage goes to insurance exchanges and what goes to Medicaid, but it's clear they are predicting 10 million people who would have been covered by employer plans will not be so covered under the ACA.

    You don't know and I don't know how many of that number will result from businesses dropping coverage entirely or reducing hours of work to drop an employee below the eligibility thresholds. Clearly, if the equivalent of 2.3 million full time jobs are going to be lost simply by the reduction in hours, that could represent 10 million employees losing upwards of 10 hours a week, a quarter of what they work currently.

    I appreciate that everything is roses from your perspective. I'm happy for you. My point as it relates to the actual OP in this thread stands.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

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    Re: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Yea they DO like to refer to the Canadian Health Care system as a shining star of single payer health care.
    And don't forget, American Democrats like to claim "it's free".
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

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    Re: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Nice job with the bait and switch. I didn't realize getting stitches was a terminal illness - nor did I think that a colonoscopy was deadly either or that either one could bankrupt you. I had no idea the American medical system was so ****ed up. You've got serious problems in the US if people are dying and suffering bankruptcy getting stitches and colonoscopies.

    As for the Canadian system, the government funds less than 50% of all healthcare services and products consumed by Canadians annually. It's why virtually all medium and large businesses fund supplemental health insurance and why many who aren't lucky enough to have such support purchase additional healthcare insurance themselves.

    Would I trade systems - no, I wouldn't - partly because it's the only system I've ever known and partly because if the percentage of taxes (here in Ontario, 50% of all government revenue is spent on healthcare) I pay to support healthcare were eliminated and I had to buy insurance myself, my initial costs would go down significantly but the government would soon eat up that vacated tax room with other mindless taxation and spending.

    And finally, there are indeed many people losing homes and savings funding healthcare services and drugs that are not covered by the single payer plan.

    No disrespect CJ, but the more I hear, the more I wouldn't trade MY plan for yours. The more I hear there is no "Canadian system" but very different provincial systems. The last I looked BC's health care costs were about 42% of overall budget, and even the raving nut bars in the NDP aren't yelling beyond the usual bellyaching. In my time here I have never needed nor known anyone with private insurance other than pharmacy coverage. There is zero wait list for any form of cancer treatment, no wait for a diabetic to see a specialist etc., all issues my Ontario cousins say they face.
    "Small people talk about people, average people talk about events, great people talk about ideas" Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    10 million people will go from employer funded health insurance plans to insurance exchanges or Medicaid.
    10 million people who would have been covered by employer plans will not be so covered under the ACA.
    These are not the same thing.

    Saying 10 million people currently in employer-sponsored insurance are going to lose it is not the same as saying ESI coverage in a decade would have grown more in an ACA-less alternate universe than it will in this one.

    The CBO predicts year-over-year ESI will increase under the ACA. They just think it would increase more in the ACA-less universe (understandable since such a universe doesn't have a viable alternative to ESI). That doesn't imply the loss of what people now have.

    I appreciate that everything is roses from your perspective. I'm happy for you. My point as it relates to the actual OP in this thread stands.
    By and large companies are not dropping coverage, they aren't planning to, nor is the CBO predicting they will. So no, your point doesn't stand. It's mildly mind-boggling to me that you persist in this nonsense in the face of the overwhelming actual evidence of what's happening.

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