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Thread: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

  1. #281
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    Re: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard View Post
    As I just said, those rules have been in effect for all plans that went into effect on or after January 1, 2014. They're not some looming threat, they've been in effect for 15 months. Any financial impact has already been felt, through two successive open enrollment periods.

    And yet, "employer offers for health insurance was basically unchanged between June 2013 and September 2014." Employers have been buying ACA-compliant plans, yet employer-sponsored coverage isn't going away.

    The "just wait for it!" shtick doesn't work when you acknowledge that all this stuff has already happened and didn't impact coverage rates.

    Did you know rates are going to SKYROCKET next year?

    I know because I've been hearing that phrase from anti-ACA people for the last five years. Wait till NEXT year.

    I've been hearing that about the Cubs my whole life, too.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

  2. #282
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    Re: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Did you know rates are going to SKYROCKET next year?

    I know because I've been hearing that phrase from anti-ACA people for the last five years. Wait till NEXT year.

    I've been hearing that about the Cubs my whole life, too.
    "Just wait til next year!" is about as strong an admission as you're likely to get that none of the anti-ACA doomsday predictions have come to pass.

  3. #283
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    Re: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    the last time you had stitches, what did that cost? colonoscopy? how much was that? what was the price tag for your most recent doctor visit? one more : can you honestly say that you'd trade systems with the US?
    Nice job with the bait and switch. I didn't realize getting stitches was a terminal illness - nor did I think that a colonoscopy was deadly either or that either one could bankrupt you. I had no idea the American medical system was so ****ed up. You've got serious problems in the US if people are dying and suffering bankruptcy getting stitches and colonoscopies.

    As for the Canadian system, the government funds less than 50% of all healthcare services and products consumed by Canadians annually. It's why virtually all medium and large businesses fund supplemental health insurance and why many who aren't lucky enough to have such support purchase additional healthcare insurance themselves.

    Would I trade systems - no, I wouldn't - partly because it's the only system I've ever known and partly because if the percentage of taxes (here in Ontario, 50% of all government revenue is spent on healthcare) I pay to support healthcare were eliminated and I had to buy insurance myself, my initial costs would go down significantly but the government would soon eat up that vacated tax room with other mindless taxation and spending.

    And finally, there are indeed many people losing homes and savings funding healthcare services and drugs that are not covered by the single payer plan.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

  4. #284
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    Re: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    LOL. You boycott some site that destroys your argument and somehow thats MY problem.

    Heres a similar comparison, showing that the employer mandate is basically no big deal either way.

    Hopefully you dont have some principled stance against the WaPo.

    Obamacare’s employer mandate keeps getting delayed. What happens if it gets killed? - The Washington Post
    Just so you know, the arrogance of you starting virtually every post with a juvenile LOL says a lot about the relevance one should place on the content of your posts.

    You can toss up a bizzillion other sites and op-ed pieces if you want - all irrelevant. You claimed that the CBO numbers of 20 million losing employer funded healthcare were wrong and/or dated and yet you haven't been able to point out a single CBO reference or report that counters their 2012 finding. I'd simply say put up the CBO revised estimates or admit you don't know what you're talking about.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

  5. #285
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    Re: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard View Post
    In the coverage estimates they released this month, the CBO expects enrollment in employer-sponsored insurance this year to be 153 million and a decade from now, in 2025, they expect it will be...155 million. No vast erosion, no upending of the status quo. Just slower enrollment growth than in the absence of affordable, decent alternatives to employer-based plans.



    You're free to identify actual problems. If you have to wave your hands and make some up, that's an indication of a pretty serious weakness in your case.

    All evidence so far has found little change, in action or intention, in employer-based coverage (very much in line with the CBO's projections that employer-based coverage numbers will be largely static).

    Health Law Brings No Drop In Insurance Enrollment At Work, Study Finds


    Obamacare Refutes Warning of Corporate America Cost Surge


    New Findings About The ACA’s Impact On Employer-Sponsored Health Insurance


    Mid-tier employers aren’t dropping coverage
    All very fine - none of it, however, disputes the original claim I made that the CBO projects that there will be significant losses to employer healthcare plans.

    I can't find the recent CBO report, but this January 2015 article notes that the CBO is now predicting that 10 million employees will lose their employer healthcare plans by 2021. Not a minor issue to the 10 million who will feel the impact.

    CBO Now Says 10 Mil Will Lose Employer Health Plans Under ObamaCare - Investors.com

    Secondly, the CBO estimates that the equivalent of 2.3 million Americans will lose a significant percentage of their hours of work as a result of the employer mandates under the ACA.

    Stock Markets, Business News, Financials, Earnings - CNBC

    Finally, add to this the 2 million you note above increase in the overall numbers of employees who will have employer funded health insurance plans in the coming decade, when there will be several multiples of that number joining the American workforce over the coming decade, unless you expect the weak economy to continue, and you see a continued erosion.

    But who knows. My only point at the start of this thread was to indicate that some businesses, as they've noted themselves, are resisting investments in labour at this time. Some of that will be attributed to the employer mandate under the ACA and the short term uncertainty leading into the 2016 elections.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

  6. #286
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    Re: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I can't find the recent CBO report, but this January 2015 article notes that the CBO is now predicting that 10 million employees will lose their employer healthcare plans by 2021. Not a minor issue to the 10 million who will feel the impact.
    No, that's not what the CBO said in January. What they did was compare their projections of enrollment in ESI under the ACA vs. what they think it would be in the absence of the ACA. They came up with these projections:

    Employer-based coverage under the ACA
    Year
    2010 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 2021 2022 2023 2024 2025
    Enrollment (in millions)
    150 156 156 153 155 155 156 156 155 157 157 157 157


    Employer-based coverage, no ACA
    Year 2010 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 2021 2022 2023 2024 2025
    Enrollment (in millions)
    150 156 158 160 163 164 165 165 165 166 166 166 166

    You'll note that neither scenario involves long-term losses.

    The number of people with employer-based coverage continues to grow in either scenario, the difference is that it grows faster in the no-ACA world. In the world we live in, more people will shop for their own plans independent of their employer as we go forward. The number of people with employer-based insurance doesn't fall.

    What those tables do not show is "10 million employees will lose their employer healthcare plans" (the ones they have now).

    (CBO's March 2015 update to these projections narrow the gap between these projections anyway).

    Secondly, the CBO estimates that the equivalent of 2.3 million Americans will lose a significant percentage of their hours of work as a result of the employer mandates under the ACA.
    Again, you're mischaracterizing what they've said. From the CBO's blog Frequently Asked Questions About CBO’s Estimates of the Labor Market Effects of the Affordable Care Act
    Because the longer-term reduction in work is expected to come almost entirely from a decline in the amount of labor that workers choose to supply in response to the changes in their incentives, we do not think it is accurate to say that the reduction stems from people “losing” their jobs.
    Voluntary reductions in the amount of labor offered are not the same as "losing a significant percentage of their hours of work."

    Finally, add to this the 2 million you note above increase in the overall numbers of employees who will have employer funded health insurance plans in the coming decade, when there will be several multiples of that number joining the American workforce over the coming decade, unless you expect the weak economy to continue, and you see a continued erosion.
    That's the difference between the CBO's with-ACA/without-ACA estimates. There are now realistic alternatives to the employer-based coverage, which means in the future people will drift toward those alternatives. That's a natural, organic change over time, not the disruption or people being stripped of what they have that you've been implying.

  7. #287
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    Re: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard View Post
    As I just said, those rules have been in effect for all plans that went into effect on or after January 1, 2014. They're not some looming threat, they've been in effect for 15 months. Any financial impact has already been felt, through two successive open enrollment periods.

    And yet, "employer offers for health insurance was basically unchanged between June 2013 and September 2014." Employers have been buying ACA-compliant plans, yet employer-sponsored coverage isn't going away.

    The "just wait for it!" shtick doesn't work when you acknowledge that all this stuff has already happened and didn't impact coverage rates.
    " Just Wait for it " ??

    I posted links that gave pretty explicit examples of the Laws CURRENT impact on Businesses and the Economy. Being sold under false pretenses and outright lies that promised " affordability " is the least of that Laws problems.

    Here's a HUGE issue with the law that I'm sure the typical Democrat hasn't taken into account. The American people have now been given the very subjective definition of what's " affordable " and what's not by the same Political party that justified the selling this law based on out right lies ( ability to keep your Dr and Insurance ) and the same party that continues to ignore the ongoing substantial economic impact that this laws had since it was passed.

    The Democrats and the Obama administration has by mandate offered up a Universal definition of what's affordable for the average Middle class American and whats not and they'll continue to repeat their false narratives and talking points no matter how much that expenditure continues to climb. The Democrats and the Obama administration continue to put party politics and ideology before the needs and concerns of the average American Middle Class family and will never acknowledge that Obama's signature legislation created a scenario that led to financial distress for millions of Americans.

    What affordable and whats not SHOULD be left up to the individual consumer and giving some Governmental entity that answers to NO ONE ( Most transparent administration... ) the power to be the final arbiter of everything from " fairness " to " affordability " is the height of foolishness. Now affordability means a mandated rising cost increase on the Middle Class and small Businesses and it's being defended.... unbelievable.
    " If no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else ? "
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  8. #288
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    Re: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard View Post
    "Just wait til next year!" is about as strong an admission as you're likely to get that none of the anti-ACA doomsday predictions have come to pass.
    No need to " wait until next year "...

    Dilemma over deductibles: Costs crippling middle class
    " If no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else ? "
    Ronald Reagan

  9. #289
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    Re: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Nice job with the bait and switch. I didn't realize getting stitches was a terminal illness - nor did I think that a colonoscopy was deadly either or that either one could bankrupt you. I had no idea the American medical system was so ****ed up. You've got serious problems in the US if people are dying and suffering bankruptcy getting stitches and colonoscopies.

    As for the Canadian system, the government funds less than 50% of all healthcare services and products consumed by Canadians annually. It's why virtually all medium and large businesses fund supplemental health insurance and why many who aren't lucky enough to have such support purchase additional healthcare insurance themselves.

    Would I trade systems - no, I wouldn't - partly because it's the only system I've ever known and partly because if the percentage of taxes (here in Ontario, 50% of all government revenue is spent on healthcare) I pay to support healthcare were eliminated and I had to buy insurance myself, my initial costs would go down significantly but the government would soon eat up that vacated tax room with other mindless taxation and spending.

    And finally, there are indeed many people losing homes and savings funding healthcare services and drugs that are not covered by the single payer plan.
    oh, i already knew that you wouldn't trade systems. neither would anyone else who has single payer. your system might have its flaws, but you're not paying thousands for a cut thumb and horrifyingly higher amounts for more serious illnesses.

    and no, your costs wouldn't go down. my premium approaches three hundred a month for one person, and that's on top of what i pay for actual treatment. there's a deductible, too. luckily, there's an employee clinic at my job. i can get most of the routine stuff taken care of there for free. and that three hundred a month buys me a maximum of like seven grand a year out of pocket, so that's good. well, i mean, seven grand would be extremely hard to float, but it's a lot better than some people have it. if you want to go on with this, we can start swapping stories about the medical bills of people we know. believe me, you're better off with single payer.

  10. #290
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    Re: U.S. companies hoard record amount of cash

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Now affordability means a mandated rising cost increase on the Middle Class and small Businesses and it's being defended.... unbelievable.
    "Affordability" here means a threshold--an on-ramp to financial assistance for those in need or an off-ramp from the individual mandate. Consumers still shop around and choose the plan that's best for them. If they don't have an employer who makes that choice for them, that is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    No need to " wait until next year "...

    Dilemma over deductibles: Costs crippling middle class
    And we've reached the point where the right becomes the left and attacks high-deductible plans. Half your arguments come from the Chamber of Commerce, the other half come from Families USA.

    Let me ask you this: when the GOP repealed the ACA's $2,000 limit on deductibles for small employer plans (opening them up to higher deductibles than that), were you for or against that move and why?

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