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Thread: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

  1. #231
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Sorry you refuse to read and I'm not going to spoon feed it to you. You're wrong. I've provided links that prove it. I cannot make you acknowledge facts. Your posts seem to want to continue with the fiction and accusation. That's fine. You fail, but that's fine.
    No I'd prefer to drop the subject, I'm just enjoying watching the lengths you'll go to not admit you can't cite any law that makes it a crime to be in the Irish Pub at midnight.

    Already discussed and settled. Drinking age is 21. That's the law. You have provided nothing but an article - it's not only policy it's the law. Sorry you deny facts.
    Right, the drinking age is 21. But you don't have to be 21 to enter a restaurant/pub, only to drink alcohol on the premises. And the policy of the bar in question is in fact to admit underage patrons at any time before 10pm, and after 10pm on Sunday and Monday nights. Hilarious that you can't admit the obvious here. I guess you're asserting they break the law every day by admitting underage patrons before 10pm? LOL.

    Again, don't insult my intelligence. Please.
    I'm not insulting your intelligence - I'm pointing out your assumption that he intended to drink is irrelevant. It's not a crime until he either 1) attempts to buy alcohol, or 2) drinks alcohol. Even IF he intended to, that isn't a crime.

    Yet the charges were at 4:14 am. That just doesn't jive with your 10pm policy BS, that has zero facts to support it. Again, I support you failing to prove your point - in fact it's very amusing at this point. I'm wondering how many times you'll double down on the failure. I suspect another day or two.
    That was the time stamp when the summons was signed and has zero relevance to anything. You've really floundering now.

    BTW, the statement from the bar owner puts the incident somewhere around 12:30am.

    Trinity Irish Pub Releases Statement on Wednesday's Incident - NBC29 WVIR Charlottesville, VA News, Sports and Weather

    On or about 12:15am, he spoke with Fire Marshall officials as well as ABC agents who were positioned outside the restaurant and closer to the street on University Way.

    Sometime shortly thereafter, Martese Johnson, who had been in the line described, stepped up to Mr. Badke and handed him his ID.
    See how easy it is to both provide a link AND quote the relevant section? You should try that with your link to drinking laws! It would clear up this misunderstanding.

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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It was after 12:15 though when he tried to get in. If this was the established policy, then why didn't they know it? Heck, what college kid thinks a pub will let those underage in past a certain time at night?
    this is policy, not law, nor was his attempted entrance a crime. In fact the bouncer thought he was 21 which is why he asked him his zip code only denying him for getting it wrong. consuming alcohol by a minor is an offense, this was not the case. The police had no reasonable suspicion to detain him.

    Of course, if the owner is claiming he didn't look at either the photo or age, then he should probably get in trouble for not actually doing his job either. It indicates that if the kid had told him the correct zip code on the ID, then he would have let him in despite the policy itself. I don't completely believe the press release from the business either though because it sounds funny that he wouldn't check the age but question the zip. That just doesn't seem right.
    Again, it was policy not law.

    and yes, kids MEMORIZE the date... they tend NOT to memorize the zip. it's a good way to weed em out.
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And if he got the zip code right? The first thing to check should be the age and the picture. There is no reason that someone can't forget they moved and get the zip code wrong. That is stupid and a very stupid reason to reject an ID. What if the person had been of age and forgotten his zip code on the ID? I've been turned away from bars or businesses for some stupid policy like this one. It does discriminate because the point of an ID is to show your face and age. Start with that, then go to the other things if a fake ID is suspected.

    His mistake was not cooperating with the police (from what it sounds like). Now, if this isn't the case, and the police really did just tackle him and arrest him for no reason except for him being turned away by a pub, then that is an issue. But that is not what this sounded like. It sounds like people trying to cover for an incident where a college student was drinking or at least trying to drink underage and resisted arrest, getting injured as a result of resisting arrest.

    And there is absolutely zero evidence that this had anything to do with his race.
    This is kind of off topic, but if you read the law (I've had to at various times), the bar owner is liable if he accepts a fake ID. So once he's determined that the ID might be fake, there is no legal or operating reason for him to take any risk and accept that ID, especially in a college town, especially when the person is clearly close at best to the legal age limit. Every training manual would DIRECT the bouncer (owner in this case) to reject the ID and refuse admission. There is simply no payoff in accepting it - he can lose his license if it's proved fake, and the downside is one kid doesn't get in the bar. Easy decision for a bar owner in a college town.

    And I guess I disagree that there is zero evidence this is about race because it was such a quick turnaround from polite and cordial kid at the pub to forcible tackle and bloodied face, when no one has alleged he swore at them, resisted arrest, etc. I've heard too many black men who I respect and who are professionals talk about Driving While Black or Shopping While Black, and the point is they do not get any benefit of the doubt, but white guys in a college town full of rich kids of important people often DO.

    I haven't alleged racism, but I can't at all conclude there's no evidence race played a role. I've lived in Charlottesville and race relations when I was there were poor.

  4. #234
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    No I'd prefer to drop the subject, I'm just enjoying watching the lengths you'll go to not admit you can't cite any law that makes it a crime to be in the Irish Pub at midnight.
    Not only have I cited law and fact, the only reason I'm still here is watching how long you want to create fiction.

    Since you have nothing new and you admitted you backtracked about ABC officers ILLEGALLY stopped Johnson and now stated ABC officers actions were LEGAL, was the turning point. (Your post #180, my post #195).

    Since you also no longer can claim some fiction about 10 pm (since the charges occurred at 04:14 am. from your own link that you posted by the way) your posting fiction there was also shown to be not only unsupported (since you cannot cite any verifiable links) but irrelevant. (Post #218)

    Your opinions shown to not reflect facts and law. That's called getting 100% debunked. To avoid such in the future, I'd suggest sticking with facts instead of making up or parroting popular narratives, meant to garner air play on television or youtube. You're welcome. Have a nice night!
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    According to someone else in this thread, fighting it in court without being rude is "acting like a sheep". Such a view by me is very naive and immature... and what would a ticket by ABC cost if he just listened and took the ticket and went home? Instead, we have video of him cutting his head in a struggle and screaming "racist" at the top of his lungs.

    What a rube this guy is.
    But what you fail to acknowledge is there was basis for any ticket until he wasn't sufficiently subservient to the ABC agents. He did nothing wrong except for failing to show the proper respect to authority.

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  6. #236
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    But what you fail to acknowledge is there was basis for any ticket until he wasn't sufficiently subservient to the ABC agents. He did nothing wrong except for failing to show the proper respect to authority.
    Already addressed: Post #210 which identifies "reasonable suspicion"

    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Not only have I cited law and fact, the only reason I'm still here is watching how long you want to create fiction.
    Well, you've cited no law - all you've done is provide a link that doesn't support your claim.

    But, hey, if you did cite the law, should be easy to do so again - I'll wait.

    Since you have nothing new and you admitted you backtracked about ABC officers ILLEGALLY stopped Johnson and now stated ABC officers actions were LEGAL, was the turning point. (Your post #180, my post #195).
    I never claimed it was ILLEGAL. Here's the exchange:

    JasperL #177: "the ABC agents had no basis to stop Johnson."
    Ockham: #178 "Quote which law prevents ABC from stopping Johnson."
    JasperL #179 "I said they had no basis to stop him, not that it was ILLEGAL to stop him. "

    If there was a misunderstanding, it was cleared up immediately - you keep hanging onto it for some reason. Odd...

    Since you also no longer can claim some fiction about 10 pm (since the charges occurred at 04:14 am. from your own link that you posted by the way) your posting fiction there was also shown to be not only unsupported (since you cannot cite any verifiable links) but irrelevant. (Post #218)
    What does 10pm have to do with anything. It was BAR POLICY to only admit those 21 or over after 10pm on the night in question. It happened around 12:30am. The bar properly denied him admittance in accordance with their reasonable policy. I've never objected to that. What I've objected to is your absurd and unsupported claim that it was a CRIME for him to try to be admitted any time after 10pm. It wasn't a crime - at worst he was attempting to circumvent bar POLICY. That's it.

    Your opinions shown to not reflect facts and law. That's called getting 100% debunked. To avoid such in the future, I'd suggest sticking with facts instead of making up or parroting popular narratives, meant to garner air play on television or youtube. You're welcome. Have a nice night!
    This has been amusing.

  8. #238
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post

    This has been amusing.
    We finally agree. Debunking your posts containing fictional narratives regarding Johnson has been amusing.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    We finally agree. Debunking your posts containing fictional narratives regarding Johnson has been amusing.
    I would still like to see that VA Code citation - if you think of it, post it for me and the rest of us under the illusion that underage persons can enter the Trinity Irish Pub legally, like they do before 10pm every day, and on Sundays and Mondays at any time the Pub is open....

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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No. The linked article says the kid was 20. Drinking age is 21.
    Even so it's not like the kid's Al Capone. It's a trivial offense.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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