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Thread: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

  1. #221
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Again, quote from that link or cite the VA Code. You've done it before. I know, and you know, why you're not doing it here - this mythical section does not exist. I guess you think you're fooling someone, but it's not me your fooling....

    You have failed yet again to provide where in the Virginia statue minors without a parent or guardian are allowed into Pubs to consume alcohol. Which is why Johnson was attempting to get into the Irish Pub on St. Patricks Day and why he was prevented from enterying by the bouncer who's upholding the Virginia State law which states entrants must be 21 to enter and drink.
    He was upholding bar POLICY. If you want to cite the Virginia State law, do it. You cannot.

    And you're assuming, without evidence, he might have intended to drink a green beer if admitted.

    The other thing is you keep stressing prior to 10 pm. Well... your own link (remember this link you provided?)
    The Cavalier Daily :: Johnson's warrant of arrest shows two misdemeanor charges

    States this occurred at 04:14 am. Oopsie!
    Bar policy is 10pm. Not a law. There's a difference.
    Last edited by JasperL; 03-24-15 at 04:14 PM.

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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    But no one has even said Johnson resisted interrogation. The worst I've read is an agent had him by the elbow and he wrenched his elbow out of his grasp - that's what earned the take down and bloodied face. It's my view that is a overreach and a failure on their part - they turned what should have been a routine encounter into an arrest, of a person whose only crime was dealing somehow inappropriately, but without any force, with ABC agents. I can't believe they've been trained to take down individuals in those circumstances, and I can't believe anyone would think they did their job well in that circumstance.
    He yanked his elbow out from the grasp can be resisting arrest. And there is no indication that he wasn't being uncooperative. He didn't have his ID card out. Why wouldn't he have already had it out if he was cooperating?
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You've assumed, contrary to reports of bystanders, that we was NOT cooperating with the ABC agents. He was cordial with the bar owner, didn't appear drunk, is a student leader, member of the honor committee, clearly has a history of respecting authority, and somehow a kid who had NO history of bad interactions with policy suddenly finds himself on the ground with a bloodied face. It's at least very possible (very LIKELY in my view) the failure here was by ABC agents with a fairly recent history of being heavy handed in entirely inappropriate circumstances....

    BTW, if his ID was invalid, why didn't they charge him with that obvious crime? No one has alleged he presented one or possessed one.



    That's fine, and that's how I try to interact with police, but as a free person, you're not actually obligated to be courteous or even cooperative to police interrogating you for BS reasons. Failure to show proper subservience is simply NOT a license to take you down, put you in handcuffs, arrest you and bloody your face, and I don't see why any community should treat that as acceptable.
    "Didn't appear drunk" is not the same as "hadn't been drinking". And they had a valid reason to interact with him, whether he wanted to believe it to be or not. Their questioning him (interrogation is completely different) is not unreasonable in any way and not cooperating is generally considered probable cause to arrest a person, depending on the level of non-cooperation.
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It was after 12:15 though when he tried to get in. If this was the established policy, then why didn't they know it? Heck, what college kid thinks a pub will let those underage in past a certain time at night?

    Of course, if the owner is claiming he didn't look at either the photo or age, then he should probably get in trouble for not actually doing his job either. It indicates that if the kid had told him the correct zip code on the ID, then he would have let him in despite the policy itself. I don't completely believe the press release from the business either though because it sounds funny that he wouldn't check the age but question the zip. That just doesn't seem right.
    Once a person gets the zip code wrong, he rejects the ID, and what it says about the person's age is no longer relevant. He'd be in trouble if he was caught ACCEPTING Ids from persons who can't correctly cite the info on them, as it would indicate the possibility they're fake or otherwise invalid. Johnson's mistake was understandable as well. Neither party did a thing wrong, but Johnson ended up on the ground with a bloodied face....

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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    As I've consistently said, it is much better and less likely to cause injuries or death to simply cooperate with the police rather than being rude or uncooperative, as many we've seen have been. Fight it in court, where you have a much better chance of winning.
    I would much rather not go to the police station at all. If they want my cooperation they should have asked me if I accept their authority over me in the first place. I don't, so you know, good luck to them getting anything from me. I know, I know, my view is childish to you, but you know what, people that go around assaulting people and assuming their authority over others are not people I respect.
    Last edited by Henrin; 03-24-15 at 04:22 PM.

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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Again, quote from that link or cite the VA Code. You've done it before. I know, and you know, why you're not doing it here - this mythical section does not exist. I guess you think you're fooling someone, but it's not me your fooling....
    Sorry you refuse to read and I'm not going to spoon feed it to you. You're wrong. I've provided links that prove it. I cannot make you acknowledge facts. Your posts seem to want to continue with the fiction and accusation. That's fine. You fail, but that's fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    He was upholding bar POLICY. If you want to cite the Virginia State law, do it. You cannot.
    Already discussed and settled. Drinking age is 21. That's the law. You have provided nothing but an article - it's not only policy it's the law. Sorry you deny facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    And you're assuming, without evidence, he might have intended to drink a green beer if admitted.
    Again, don't insult my intelligence. Please.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Bar policy is 10pm. Not a law. There's a difference.
    Yet the charges were at 4:14 am. That just doesn't jive with your 10pm policy BS, that has zero facts to support it. Again, I support you failing to prove your point - in fact it's very amusing at this point. I'm wondering how many times you'll double down on the failure. I suspect another day or two.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    "Didn't appear drunk" is not the same as "hadn't been drinking". And they had a valid reason to interact with him, whether he wanted to believe it to be or not. Their questioning him (interrogation is completely different) is not unreasonable in any way and not cooperating is generally considered probable cause to arrest a person, depending on the level of non-cooperation.
    Right, it's called obstruction of justice without force. A BS charge if there ever was one.

    The question is whether "not cooperating" merits a forcible take down and bloodied face. I can't see that as justified given what we know.

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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    As I've consistently said, it is much better and less likely to cause injuries or death to simply cooperate with the police rather than being rude or uncooperative, as many we've seen have been. Fight it in court, where you have a much better chance of winning.
    According to someone else in this thread, fighting it in court without being rude is "acting like a sheep". Such a view by me is very naive and immature... and what would a ticket by ABC cost if he just listened and took the ticket and went home? Instead, we have video of him cutting his head in a struggle and screaming "racist" at the top of his lungs.

    What a rube this guy is.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Once a person gets the zip code wrong, he rejects the ID, and what it says about the person's age is no longer relevant. He'd be in trouble if he was caught ACCEPTING Ids from persons who can't correctly cite the info on them, as it would indicate the possibility they're fake or otherwise invalid. Johnson's mistake was understandable as well. Neither party did a thing wrong, but Johnson ended up on the ground with a bloodied face....
    And if he got the zip code right? The first thing to check should be the age and the picture. There is no reason that someone can't forget they moved and get the zip code wrong. That is stupid and a very stupid reason to reject an ID. What if the person had been of age and forgotten his zip code on the ID? I've been turned away from bars or businesses for some stupid policy like this one. It does discriminate because the point of an ID is to show your face and age. Start with that, then go to the other things if a fake ID is suspected.

    His mistake was not cooperating with the police (from what it sounds like). Now, if this isn't the case, and the police really did just tackle him and arrest him for no reason except for him being turned away by a pub, then that is an issue. But that is not what this sounded like. It sounds like people trying to cover for an incident where a college student was drinking or at least trying to drink underage and resisted arrest, getting injured as a result of resisting arrest.

    And there is absolutely zero evidence that this had anything to do with his race.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Right, it's called obstruction of justice without force. A BS charge if there ever was one.

    The question is whether "not cooperating" merits a forcible take down and bloodied face. I can't see that as justified given what we know.
    How did he get the actual injury? It isn't hard to get a cut on your head, especially if you are struggling. He was clearly in the video we do have (taken after he injured) trying to keep his wrists from being placed in cuffs. That is resisting in itself.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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