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Thread: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

  1. #181
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I've already provided you this link prior - which you do not seem to acknowledge.

    APIS - State Profiles of Underage Drinking Laws

    This outlines the law as it applies to minors entering establishments. That is the law, and while I'm sure the Irish Pub had it's own policy - the policy they have in place protects their liquor license and therefore follows the law - especially on St. Patricks Day.
    There's a reason you gave a link without quoting the relevant statute. You know the link doesn't support your claim. Quote the section dealing with "minors entering establishments."

    Again, it's a rhetorical request because your link says nothing about that. It has a lot of rules about selling alcohol to minors, underage consumption, possession etc. of alcohol, but nothing at all about minors 'entering establishments' that serve alcohol.

    That's not correct. Bouncers are there to check to make sure people who enter are legally of age to enter the establishment. Yes he enforces the bars policy but also enforces the law - just as the bartender is responsible for making sure patrons are of age. Suggesting otherwise, especially in Johnsons case which was on St. Patricks Day, is an insult to the intelligence.
    If this was a Monday night, bouncers don't check ID at the door. If it's before 10pm, at least on nights NOT St. Patrick's Day, they don't check ID. If you want to assert some law that makes it ILLEGAL, aka a crime, to enter a bar after 10pm, cite it. You can't do it.

    You're concepts assume one to be stupid to believe it. I am neither stupid nor do I see your posts as anything but opinion. I have posted facts, laws, verifiable. You have done nothing to rebut that but provide opinion which I of course reject.
    No, you've posted links that fail to prove anything. Hilarious.

    Show me a law that says it's illegal. You cannot. Therefore your statement is not based in fact but fiction.
    Goodness - I say it's not illegal for ABC to stop Johnson, and you ask me to cite a law to prove it's illegal, which I just said it's not. What I said was there was no basis - he broke no law, wasn't being disruptive, was cordial at the bar, etc. They CAN LEGALLY stop a 93 year old grandma at 11am on Sunday morning in a wheelchair and interrogate her, I suppose, but there would be no BASIS for such an act. See the point? It's simple, really.

    You have failed to prove any of that. You've provided no breathalyzer data, you've been provided facts that show ABC DOES have the ability to stop and question someone, you have been provided facts that show Johnson illegally tried to enter an bar on St. Patricks Day without a parent or guardian which is against the law (link provided now twice) was turned away and ABC questioned him. The facts are the facts... you wish to promote and advocate fiction.
    Your link is BS and you know it. If you want to prove me wrong, quote the relevant section of your link. It shouldn't take much effort..... I'll be waiting!

    Post the verifiable law with a link that states that. I've seen you make a claim but nothing to support it.
    OK, here's how to properly support a claim. First is the link: Trinity Irish Pub Releases Statement on Wednesday's Incident - NBC29 WVIR Charlottesville, VA News, Sports and Weather

    And now I'll quote from that link the part that supports my assertion:

    Because it serves alcohol to its patrons, Trinity is licensed and regulated by Virginia's Alcohol Beverage Control Board. In a college town, ensuring that underage patrons are not served alcohol is a priority. The management of Trinity have found it best to enact a strict 21 and over policy after 10pm during busy evenings for the establishment, generally Tuesday through Saturday evenings. Trinity believes this notably limits the possibility of underage students attempting to gain access to the restaurant. A 10pm timeframe is fair because it allows underage students to still dine at our restaurant for a late dinner. At 10pm, Trinity switches over to our late night food menu. Once 10pm comes, under no circumstances do we allow anyone under the age of 21 to enter the establishment. However, there are special circumstances, such as parties renting out the restaurant, when Trinity will allow underage patrons.
    Policy =/= law.

    I on the other hand have provided laws and a link (see above) that contradicts your opinion about some fictional legal ability to be in an Irish Pub before 10 pm. Prove it. :
    I just did - see the statement above!
    Last edited by JasperL; 03-24-15 at 02:33 PM.

  2. #182
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    There's a reason you gave a link without quoting the relevant statute. You know the link doesn't support your claim. Quote the section dealing with "minors entering establishments."

    Again, it's a rhetorical request because your link says nothing about that. It has a lot of rules about selling alcohol to minors, underage consumption, possession etc. of alcohol, but nothing at all about minors 'entering establishments' that serve alcohol.



    If this was a Monday night, bouncers don't check ID at the door. If it's before 10pm, at least on nights NOT St. Patrick's Day, they don't check ID. If you want to assert some law that makes it ILLEGAL, aka a crime, to enter a bar after 10pm, cite it. You can't do it.



    No, you've posted links that fail to prove anything. Hilarious.



    Goodness - I say it's not illegal for ABC to stop Johnson, and you ask me to cite a law to prove it's illegal, which I just said it's not. What I said was there was no basis - he broke no law, wasn't being disruptive, was cordial at the bar, etc. They CAN LEGALLY stop a 93 year old grandma at 11am on Sunday morning in a wheelchair and interrogate her, I suppose, but there would be no BASIS for such an act. See the point? It's simple, really.



    Your link is BS and you know it. If you want to prove me wrong, quote the relevant section of your link. It shouldn't take much effort..... I'll be waiting!



    OK, here's how to properly support a claim. First is the link: Trinity Irish Pub Releases Statement on Wednesday's Incident - NBC29 WVIR Charlottesville, VA News, Sports and Weather

    And now I'll quote from that link the part that supports my assertion:



    Policy =/= law.



    I just did - see the statement above!
    Summary:
    You didn't post the law that states ABC officers cannot stop Johnson.
    You posted a article with a statement by the Pub's co owner but no verifiable law nor a link.


    I've already addressed the rest of your fiction. Anything new you'd like to discuss?
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  3. #183
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Apparently it's enough to need surgery, all of a sudden.

    How come they didn't do surgery on my 15 year old when he fell and cut his head? Some stitches, a few pain pills, and we were on our way. I feel slighted.
    My son when he was two fell and busted open his head, requiring three staples. It took about 20 minutes at the hospital to clean his head and put the staples in, and he wasn't even bleeding by the time we got him there or even just got him into the car to go, although he bled heavily the first 10 or so minutes, while we kept pressure to his head. It was not "surgery". Heck, my brother had fifty something stitches in his back as a child and it wasn't considered surgery (had two different occasions of getting them in his head too).
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #184
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    First I think the kid was of age and had a valid ID. Even if he didn't underage kids sneaking into bars is as old as drinking age laws. BFD. There's no reason it should have escalated. There's no reason for the heavy hand of the law here.
    No. The linked article says the kid was 20. Drinking age is 21.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #185
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I don't know this, which is why I said it "appears to be" not showing the proper respect. He (apparently) wasn't drunk, wasn't using a fake ID, wasn't charged with using or threatening any force against the cops, but was bloodied and arrested and charged with BS crimes.
    He was 20. How was he planning on getting into the bars if he didn't have a fake ID?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  6. #186
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    He was 20. How was he planning on getting into the bars if he didn't have a fake ID?
    According to some in this thread, the law doesn't matter you see.... underage kids can enter pubs without a parent or guardian until 10 pm even on St. Patricks Day, one of the heaviest drinking days of the entire year and in a college town no less!
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  7. #187
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Several articles have reported he passed a breathalyzer test. We're not even sure he was drunk.
    Passed, as in less than .08? Or no alcohol at all? He was underage, 20. That means any BAC reading (most states are above .02 I believe) is grounds for being cited for underage drinking/intoxication.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #188
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    According to some in this thread, the law doesn't matter you see.... underage kids can enter pubs without a parent or guardian until 10 pm even on St. Patricks Day, one of the heaviest drinking days of the entire year and in a college town no less!
    I believe that localities/states that allow this define pubs differently than they do bars. Usually has to do with food service.

  9. #189
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    I believe that localities/states that allow this define pubs differently than they do bars. Usually has to do with food service.
    On non holidays sure... but not St. Pattys Day, which is why Johnson was not allowed entry and why ABC was out in force and keeping a much keener eye on things.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I'm aware that cops are not forced to allege the maximum charge allowable. But if they write a ticket for doing 65 in a 50, it's not a fair assumption the person was doing 80. The evidence shows the person was doing 65. Maybe some facts emerge that indicate the person was doing 80 but until then the only reasonable conclusion is the person was doing 65, the speed marked on the ticket.

    The police arrested a person and had the choice to indicate with or without threat or force. When they indicated "NO THRT/FORCE" that means something important, that the police don't have evidence to charge/prove Johnson used threats or force.
    In many cases, the person was doing 70 or 80 but the cop goes easier on them for generally respectful or "good" behavior or something else. There are a lot of places where for every mph over the speed limit, the fine increases by so much money. In some places, the difference between a reckless driving charge and a speeding fine is 14 or 15 miles over the speed limit.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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