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Thread: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

  1. #171
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    The link is the VP, and the article in Cavalier Daily indicating the bar owners said he didn't appear drunk.
    Sorry not good enough. The actual breathalyzer test results will be required.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I did, and I grasp the meaning of "or." Apparently you don't. I guess we'll have to move on as the debate assumes at least a first grade level of reading comprehension.
    So call the link I provided you for free legal advice. What part of that do you still not comprehend. You want me to dial the number for you too?

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    So what?
    So it supports what I said in post #9:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham in Post #9
    Well it happened because he is underage and trying to get into a bar.
    So it also means I didn't make it up. So it also means your little accusations are unfounded nonsense. But in posting unfounded nonsense you've been very consistent in this thread. Kudos.


    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Those under age 21 can enter that bar on some nights at any time, and during other nights any time before 10pm. So it's not a crime to try to enter when the bar POLICY is to only admit those 21 or over. The bar by its own account suspends that policy all the time and admits underage people.
    Because that's what he was doing on St. Patricks Day is going to a bar to NOT drink. Don't insult my intelligence please... and maybe you should call the bar, let the owner know you're not a lawyer but want to complain about their bouncers because they didn't let Martese Johnson into the bar before 10 pm on St. Paddy's day because it was perfectly legal for Martese to enter.

    Let me know what they say: Trinity Irish Pub
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  2. #172
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Sorry not good enough. The actual breathalyzer test results will be required.
    OK. I'll bet 10 cents he doesn't register as drunk.

    So call the link I provided you for free legal advice. What part of that do you still not comprehend. You want me to dial the number for you too?
    I don't need a lawyer to tell me that a series of acts separated by or mean that a person charged under that statute might have violated any one, two or three of those charges. So when the statute reads cursing OR swearing OR public intoxication, it's not clear to me which of these he's alleged to have violated. Apparently this is beyond your grasp - you can't grasp the use of "or" in a statute.

    So it supports what I said in post #9:

    So it also means I didn't make it up. So it also means your little accusations are unfounded nonsense. But in posting unfounded nonsense you've been very consistent in this thread. Kudos.
    You said it was a crime, I said BS, you repeated that assertion. You were wrong. It's not a crime to try to enter a bar while underage. Period. If you've got a link to some statute, cite it. Otherwise, keep beating this dead horse - you were mistaken.

    Because that's what he was doing on St. Patricks Day is going to a bar to NOT drink. Don't insult my intelligence please... and maybe you should call the bar, let the owner know you're not a lawyer but want to complain about their bouncers because they didn't let Martese Johnson into the bar before 10 pm on St. Paddy's day because it was perfectly legal for Martese to enter.
    I don't drink at all but go to 'bars' all the time. I have no idea if he intended to drink or not, and neither do you. But whether he did intend to or not is a moot point - trying to get into that bar at age 20 IS NOT A CRIME. And the police can't charge him with a thought crime of maybe if he got in intending to perhaps!! order a green beer.

    And your stuff about me calling the bar is just more trolling. They're perfectly free to set their bar POLICY to whatever they want it to be. I don't care what the bar POLICY was. You said trying to violate BAR POLICY is a criminal act. That's wrong.

    Let me know what they say: Trinity Irish Pub
    I think we've about beat this to death. Your trolling isn't even fun to respond to anymore.
    Last edited by JasperL; 03-23-15 at 08:02 PM.

  3. #173
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    OK. I'll bet 10 cents he doesn't register as drunk.
    Do you even know what the legal limit of "drunk" is in Virginia? Somehow I don't think you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You said it was a crime, I said BS, you repeated that assertion. You were wrong.
    That's a lie... and I posted a link with all of the drinking laws in it. The drinking age is 21 years of age.

    If you must lie, at least do it with some intelligence. Let me know what the Irish Pub says though won't ya?
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Do you even know what the legal limit of "drunk" is in Virginia? Somehow I don't think you do.
    Why don't you tell me?

    That's a lie .. and I posted a link with all of the drinking laws in it. The drinking age is 21 years of age.
    LMAO. You left a written record!

    Post #156 - Ockham: "His crime was trying to gain access to a bar being under age..."

    Post #157 - JasperL: "It's a crime to TRY to enter a bar while under age 21? Holy cow - almost everyone I knew including me committed CRIMINAL ACTS in college!!!"

    Post #158 - Ockham: "I never said it wasn't common... but yes, it's a crime"
    So what did I lie about? And sure, you posted a link with some laws about underage drinking. None of them say it's a crime to try to enter a bar with a POLICY to only admit those 21 or older after 10pm, on some busy nights, but admits underage people on other nights.....

    If you must lie, at least do it with some intelligence. Let me know what the Irish Pub says though won't ya?
    If you're going to call someone a liar, don't leave a written record that proves they're telling the truth!
    Last edited by JasperL; 03-23-15 at 10:00 PM.

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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Why don't you tell me?
    Of course - anything to educate the masses:

    Under 21 .02%
    21 or older .05%
    Will Virginia Lower the Legal Limit from 0.08 to 0.05 for DUI Cases? - Albo & Oblon, LLP - Attorneys at Law - Washington DC Area


    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    LMAO. You left a written record!
    Yep and it's still true. Johnson attempting to get into the bar being underage was the catalyst for ABC going after him.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    So what did I lie about? And sure, you posted a link with some laws about underage drinking.
    You claimed I made up the law of entering a bar under 21. You claimed I made up charges ... I've posted verifiable facts and links with them. \

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    None of them say it's a crime to try to enter a bar with a POLICY to only admit those 21 or older after 10pm, on some busy nights, but admits underage people on other nights.....
    Did he have a parent or guardian with him? No. Again, don't insult my intelligence - he was trying to get into the bar on St. Pattys day to drink. Suggesting otherwise is beyond insipid.
    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    If you're going to call someone a liar, don't leave a written record that proves they're telling the truth!
    There's no if's about it. I did and I stand by it. If you want to have a civilized discussion I'd suggest your posts rely less on emotion and more on facts.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    UVA Student Arrest 'Disturbing,' Charlottesville Police Chief Says - ABC News



    ""Law enforcement depends so much on its relationship with its citizens, if any aspect of our citizenry feels threatened, feels that they're not being treated fairly, that disrupts my ability to have that relationship and carry out the function of what I call relational policing," Longo said on "This Week.""


    A lot of cop apologists, and LEO's should adopt this mantra.
    You should try to remember, ideas are conveyed by researching information, vetting sources, and confirming said information. Not by regurgitating talking points given to you by your "news" station.
    Don't hate me 'cause I'm beautiful, but hate me all the more.

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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Of course - anything to educate the masses:
    Great, thanks!

    Yep and it's still true. Johnson attempting to get into the bar being underage was the catalyst for ABC going after him.
    First of all, yesterday you called me a liar for (I assume) misstating your position that trying to enter a bar is a 'crime.' So I quote you twice making that assertion, and now I'm not a liar, and you are sticking to the claim that you called me a liar for stating yesterday? It's hard to debate when you can't keep your story straight from one day to the next.

    Second, it might have been the catalyst, but it's not a crime for a person underage to be in a bar, and it's not a crime for a 20 year old to try to get in a bar that has a POLICY of only admitting those 21 or over.

    And that difference is a key point - the ABC agents had no basis to stop Johnson. He was carded, provided a valid ID, was turned away, and the entire exchange between bouncer and Johnson was cordial. He broke no law tying to enter the bar. So why was he detained? We can only guess. Maybe they thought he tried to use a fake ID, but he didn't. And in the course of interrogating him about a crime he didn't commit, Johnson ended up on the ground, bloodied, then arrested.

    You claimed I made up the law of entering a bar under 21. You claimed I made up charges ... I've posted verifiable facts and links with them. \
    No, you didn't. You provided a link, and that link said nothing about "entering a bar under 21." If you want, follow your link and quote the law that says it's illegal for someone age 20 to be in a place that serves alcohol.

    That's a rhetorical request because there is no such law. THAT bar allows underage people in on some nights after 10pm, and on any night before 10pm. They can waive their policy of 21 or over at any time for any reason the bar owners want. It's bar policy, not law, to restrict bar patrons to over age 21 on some nights during some hours.

    Did he have a parent or guardian with him? No. Again, don't insult my intelligence - he was trying to get into the bar on St. Pattys day to drink. Suggesting otherwise is beyond insipid.
    A 20 year old doesn't need a parent or guardian to enter an establishment that serves alcohol. Fact. And you don't know if he intended to drink or not. Also fact. It's nice you assume that, and maybe you're right, but until he does drink or tries to buy alcohol, he has committed no crime.

    There's no if's about it. I did and I stand by it. If you want to have a civilized discussion I'd suggest your posts rely less on emotion and more on facts.
    LOL. I'm pointing out you have your "facts" wrong. All you need to do to shut me up is quote the statute.
    Last edited by JasperL; 03-24-15 at 12:42 PM.

  8. #178
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Great, thanks!

    First of all, yesterday you called me a liar for (I assume) misstating your position that trying to enter a bar is a 'crime.'
    I've already addressed this. See prior post.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Second, it might have been the catalyst, but it's not a crime for a person underage to be in a bar, and it's not a crime for a 20 year old to try to get in a bar that has a POLICY of only admitting those 21 or over.
    Actually it is - if it wasn't then the bouncer would have let him in. If it wasn't the catalyst the ABC officers who were watching the Irish Pub carefully that day (St. Patricks Day) wouldn't have noticed. So the point you think you've posted isn't a point as it's not substantiated by fact.


    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    And that difference is a key point - the ABC agents had no basis to stop Johnson.
    Quote which law prevents ABC from stopping Johnson. When you cannot, it's a nice opinion, but nothing more.


    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    No, you didn't. You provided a link, and that link said nothing about "entering a bar under 21."
    The link I just provided did that but okay here's another one. There are quite a few so I have a lot of options for links:
    Virginia DUI Laws - FindLaw


    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    That's a rhetorical request because there is no such law.
    Did Johnson have a parent or guardian with him when trying to enter the Irish Pub? Yes or No? Since you cannot post honestly, I will answer for you: The answer is NO.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    A 20 year old doesn't need a parent or guardian to enter an establishment that serves alcohol. Fact.
    Then cite your supporting fact with a verifiable link as it applies to Virginia. Until you do that, more nonsense opinion won't cut it.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    LOL. I'm pointing out you have your "facts" wrong.
    I'm sure YOU believe that but your emotional posts related to Johnson are not contrary facts. Sorry.
    Last edited by Ockham; 03-24-15 at 01:16 PM. Reason: Correct quote brackets
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Actually it is - if it wasn't then the bouncer would have let him in. If it wasn't the catalyst the ABC officers who were watching the Irish Pub carefully that day (St. Patricks Day) wouldn't have noticed. So the point you think you've posted isn't a point as it's not substantiated by fact.
    The bar had a policy of not admitting those under age 21 on some nights during some hours. That's different than a law.

    The bouncer at the door (an owner as it turned out with Johnson) was employed to enforce bar policy, not enforce the law.

    These are very simple and easily distinguished concepts. I'm not sure why you refuse to do so.

    Quote which law prevents ABC from stopping Johnson. When you cannot, it's a nice opinion, but nothing more.
    I said they had no basis to stop him, not that it was ILLEGAL to stop him.

    But the reason it's important is I've read several articles, and some people on this thread, have implied that if a person doesn't break the law, bad things won't happen. Johnson broke no law, and somehow he ended up bloodied and arrested because of how he dealt with cops who stopped him for no reason. He wasn't drunk, wasn't disorderly, was cordial to the bar owner, and was breaking no law trying to enter the bar. So why was he detained/questioned by ABC agents? Who knows? He was arrested because he mildly objected to an interrogation for no reason.

    The link I just provided did that but okay here's another one. There are quite a few so I have a lot of options for links:
    Virginia DUI Laws - FindLaw
    Hilarious. You made the claim, and cannot back it up. You know that link doesn't say anything about the "crime" of being under age 21 in a place that serves alcohol. Who do you think you're fooling?

    Did Johnson have a parent or guardian with him when trying to enter the Irish Pub? Yes or No? Since you cannot post honestly, I will answer for you: The answer is NO.
    I'll post honestly - it's a moot point whether he had a parent or guardian with him when trying to enter the pub. It's perfectly legal for an unaccompanied 20 year old to be in the Irish Pub. So the more complete answer is, "NO, and it makes no difference to anything at all that he didn't."

    Then cite your supporting fact with a verifiable link as it applies to Virginia. Until you do that, more nonsense opinion won't cut it.
    That's not how it works. You made the claim, and it's up to you to support your claim. Asking me to do the impossible and prove a negative is hilariously illegitimate.

    And the funny thing is it's BAR POLICY, and therefore obviously legal for a person underage to be in the Irish Pub before 10pm, and on some nights after 10pm. So you're making the extraordinary claim that when it's bar POLICY to only admit those over age 21, that violating bar POLICY becomes a crime.
    Last edited by JasperL; 03-24-15 at 01:55 PM.

  10. #180
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    The bar had a policy of not admitting those under age 21 on some nights during some hours. That's different than a law.
    I've already provided you this link prior - which you do not seem to acknowledge.

    APIS - State Profiles of Underage Drinking Laws

    This outlines the law as it applies to minors entering establishments. That is the law, and while I'm sure the Irish Pub had it's own policy - the policy they have in place protects their liquor license and therefore follows the law - especially on St. Patricks Day.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    The bouncer at the door (an owner as it turned out with Johnson) was employed to enforce bar policy, not enforce the law.
    That's not correct. Bouncers are there to check to make sure people who enter are legally of age to enter the establishment. Yes he enforces the bars policy but also enforces the law - just as the bartender is responsible for making sure patrons are of age. Suggesting otherwise, especially in Johnsons case which was on St. Patricks Day, is an insult to the intelligence.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    These are very simple and easily distinguished concepts. I'm not sure why you refuse to do so.
    You're concepts assume one to be stupid to believe it. I am neither stupid nor do I see your posts as anything but opinion. I have posted facts, laws, verifiable. You have done nothing to rebut that but provide opinion which I of course reject.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I said they had no basis to stop him, not that it was ILLEGAL to stop him.
    Show me a law that says it's illegal. You cannot. Therefore your statement is not based in fact but fiction.


    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    But the reason it's important is I've read several articles, and some people on this thread, have implied that if a person doesn't break the law, bad things won't happen. Johnson broke no law, and somehow he ended up bloodied and arrested because of how he dealt with cops who stopped him for no reason. He wasn't drunk, wasn't disorderly, was cordial to the bar owner. So why was he detained? Who knows? He was arrested because he mildly objected to an interrogation for no reason.
    You have failed to prove any of that. You've provided no breathalyzer data, you've been provided facts that show ABC DOES have the ability to stop and question someone, you have been provided facts that show Johnson illegally tried to enter an bar on St. Patricks Day without a parent or guardian which is against the law (link provided now twice) was turned away and ABC questioned him. The facts are the facts... you wish to promote and advocate fiction.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Hilarious. You made the claim, and cannot back it up.
    I've posted the link now twice in this thread. Fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I'll post honestly -
    That would be a change.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    That's not how it works. You made the claim, and it's up to you to support your claim.
    Already supported with facts and verifiable links.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    And the funny thing is it's perfectly legal for a person underage to be in the Irish Pub before 10pm, and on some nights after 10pm. So you're making a claim that when it's bar POLICY to only admit those over age 21, that violating bar POLICY becomes a crime.
    Post the verifiable law with a link that states that. I've seen you make a claim but nothing to support it.

    I on the other hand have provided laws and a link (see above) that contradicts your opinion about some fictional legal ability to be in an Irish Pub before 10 pm. Prove it. :
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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