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Thread: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

  1. #161
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Note the use of 'or' - "If any person profanely curses or swears or is intoxicated in public." Which one is he accused of doing?
    Either or, just as the law reads.

    Let me just cut to the chase here - do you have anything new to discuss? Otherwise I'm simply repeating myself.... you've posted no link to the breathalyzer test, you've not answered what "NO THRT/FORCE" means either legally or in context of your opinion... the only thing you're doing is whining about the system which is in place and I don't have any interest in addressing that. So... any new facts? If not, you can go through my previous posts for the answers I've already provided to questions and statements you've already provided.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    From the UVa student newspaper, The Cavalier Daily, we can read a bit more about what happened that night

    Interactions between third-year College student Martese Johnson and bouncers outside Trinity Irish Pub Tuesday night were cordial and fairly standard, Trinity owner Kevin Badke said in a limited exclusive interview with The Cavalier Daily. Badke said Johnson “seemed sober,” and refuted claims that Trinity’s bouncers were especially antagonistic toward Johnson or treated him differently because of his race.
    <snip>
    Upon being denied entry, Johnson did not raise his voice and “just seemed disappointed he didn’t get in,” Badke said.

    Badke, who was periodically working the door as a bouncer Tuesday night due to a high volume of patrons on St. Patrick’s Day and notification that ABC would be monitoring the establishment, said he personally checked Johnson’s identification. Their interaction was slightly longer than average because Johnson could not provide the correct zip code on his Illinois ID.
    So why did the ABC police grab Johnson?
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Either or, just as the law reads.
    OK, so it's not even clear he was charged with being drunk. Could be the infraction was cursing or swearing, which we saw on tape. As I said.

    Let me just cut to the chase here - do you have anything new to discuss? Otherwise I'm simply repeating myself.... you've posted no link to the breathalyzer test, you've not answered what "NO THRT/FORCE" means either legally or in context of your opinion...
    18.2-460 reads in part:

    A. If any person without just cause knowingly obstructs ..... any law-enforcement officer...in the performance of his duties as such or fails or refuses without just cause to cease such obstruction when requested to do so..

    B. Except as provided in subsection C, any person who, by threats or force, knowingly attempts to intimidate or impede .... any law-enforcement officer
    You've read the statute, so I'm unclear what the question is. He isn't accused of using threats or force. So he somehow, without threats or force, obstructed the officers in the performance of their duties. How he "obstructed" them is unclear. Didn't say "Yes SIR!" fast enough? Who the hell knows.....

    the only thing you're doing is whining about the system which is in place and I don't have any interest in addressing that. So... any new facts? If not, you can go through my previous posts for the answers I've already provided to questions and statements you've already provided.
    I see you have no cite to the VA Code that says it's a crime for a 20 year old to try to enter a bar, as I suspected. Besides, as the Cavalier Daily article points out, it's bar POLICY to only admit those 21 or older on busy nights, not a legal requirement. So, not a crime to try.

  4. #164
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    OK, so it's not even clear he was charged with being drunk. Could be the infraction was cursing or swearing, which we saw on tape. As I said.
    If you're still confused you could call or email someone in Virginia and I'm sure they can explain it.

    Here's a link to help you: VaLegalAid.org - A guide to free and low cost civil legal information and services in Virginia
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    If you're still confused you could call or email someone in Virginia and I'm sure they can explain it.

    Here's a link to help you: VaLegalAid.org - A guide to free and low cost civil legal information and services in Virginia
    Very funny. Maybe you can tell me what his infraction was - drunk OR cursing OR swearing, OR some combination. I also imagine if one of them is to defend Johnson, they'll clarify with the prosecutor which part of the statute he's alleged to have violated. You seem to know - so tell me.

    BTW, can the legal aid folks direct me to the statute about it being a crime for a person age 20 to try to enter a bar with a policy of not admitting those under age 21 after 10pm? Or have you conceded you were wrong about that, too?

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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Martese Johnson Was 'Polite and Cordial' Before Arrest, Bar Says - NBC News

    Trinity Irish Pub said that Johnson, 20, was denied entry after he gave the wrong answer when a bouncer examined his ID and asked him the ZIP code. The bar's statement quoted its managing owner, Kevin Badke, as saying that Johnson was "a disappointed patron."

    The statement characterizes what happened next this way:

    Mr. Badke immediately responded that he could not accept it. Mr. Johnson, probably realizing the reason for the error, stated that he had moved. At this point, Mr. Badke and Mr. Johnson had a brief conversation because Mr. Badke is from the south side of Chicago, where Mr. Johnson indicated he was from. In Mr. Badke's opinion, Mr. Johnson did not appear to be intoxicated in the least. Despite the conversation, which was cordial and respectful, Mr. Badke reiterated that he could not permit him to enter. He handed Mr. Johnson his ID back and Mr. Johnson began walking in a north westerly direction up University Avenue. A few moments later, Mr. Badke heard a commotion, turned, and saw Mr. Johnson on the ground about 30 feet further up on University Avenue with ABC agents detaining him.

    Uh Oh.......



    "There have been reported comments that management of Trinity were belligerent towards Mr. Johnson or that Mr. Johnson was belligerent towards management," the statement said. "Those allegations are patently untrue, as the brief conversation that occurred was polite and cordial."


    And then for the REAL RACISM!!!!!!


    Alcohol control agents had said that they planned to keep a close eye on the bar on St. Patrick's Day because it was Irish, the statement said.
    Those ****in irish!
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  7. #167
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Very funny.
    It wasn't a joke.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Maybe you can tell me what his infraction was - drunk OR cursing OR swearing, OR some combination.
    Link the breathalyzer results and I'll tell you.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I also imagine if one of them is to defend Johnson, they'll clarify with the prosecutor which part of the statute he's alleged to have violated. You seem to know - so tell me.
    He violated 18.2-460, and 18.2-388. Sorry you forgot already since you posted the actual link to the charges.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    BTW, can the legal aid folks direct me to the statute about it being a crime for a person age 20 to try to enter a bar with a policy of not admitting those under age 21 after 10pm? Or have you conceded you were wrong about that, too?
    You should call them and find out.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    It wasn't a joke.
    Ok, so not a joke, just silly. I'll ignore.

    Link the breathalyzer results and I'll tell you.
    The breathalyzer results might tell us what he cannot ultimately be convicted of (tough to convict someone of public drunkenness if he passes a breathalyzer), but it won't help us decide what he was charged with.

    He violated 18.2-460, and 18.2-388. Sorry you forgot already since you posted the actual link to the charges.
    You're just trolling now. As I've pointed out several times, 18.2-388 is a series of acts separated by OR - cursing OR swearing OR public intoxication. Like me, you don't know which one or more of those acts Johnson allegedly committed. Thanks for clarifying that.

    You should call them and find out.
    You made this claim - quoting you: "His crime was trying to gain access to a bar being under age..."

    So you just made that up and it's not in fact a crime for a 20 year old to try to enter a bar that has a policy of not admitting those under age 21. Got it.
    Last edited by JasperL; 03-23-15 at 06:44 PM.

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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Ok, so not a joke, just silly. I'll ignore.
    And that is why fail.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    The breathalyzer results might tell us what he cannot ultimately be convicted of (tough to convict someone of public drunkenness if he passes a breathalyzer), but it won't help us decide what he was charged with.
    So... the link... where is it?


    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You're just trolling now. As I've pointed out several times, 18.2-388 is a series of acts separated by OR - cursing OR swearing OR public intoxication. Like me, you don't know which one or more of those acts Johnson allegedly committed. Thanks for clarifying that.
    Read the offense. It's in English.


    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You made this claim - quoting you: "His crime was trying to gain access to a bar being under age..."

    So you just made up that "crime." Got it. Thanks!
    No - the drinking age is 21 in Virginia. You can check it yourself.

    APIS - State Profiles of Underage Drinking Laws
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    So... the link... where is it?
    The link is the VP, and the article in Cavalier Daily indicating the bar owners said he didn't appear drunk. What evidence are you relying on that he WAS drunk.

    Read the offense. It's in English.
    I did, and I grasp the meaning of "or." Apparently you don't. I guess we'll have to move on as the debate assumes at least a first grade level of reading comprehension.

    No - the drinking age is 21 in Virginia. You can check it yourself.
    So what? You said, "His crime was trying to gain access to a bar being under age..."

    Those under age 21 can enter that bar on some nights at any time, and during other nights any time before 10pm. So it's not a crime to try to enter when the bar POLICY is to only admit those 21 or over. The bar by its own account suspends that policy all the time and admits underage people.

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