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Thread: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    The UVA honor code does not apply to Virginia law. Please show me where in the Virginia Penal Code the UVA honor code is listed. When you don't answer and / or cannot address it, you will then understand why it's irrelevant and has been nor for the past 10 posts I've replied to you. If you continue with the Honor Code nonsense I'll simply delete it and ignore it as I've now said it's irrelevant and it will continue to be irrelevant.
    Let's review:

    You: And yes, COPS normally don't lie, as when they do and they're caught, they lose credibility within their own department and the charges will be dismissed.

    Me: And kids on the Honor Committee at UVa don't normally lie either. They get expelled.

    You: This incident didn't occur on U.Va property but off campus, so it's still irrelevant.

    Me: (several back and forth comments summarized) It's fact that the Honor Code applies off campus, and especially when he identifies himself as a student, which he did. So if caught lying to police, he CAN BE EXPELLED BY THE HONOR COMMITTEE HER SERVES ON.

    So you changed the goal post to the Virginia Penal Code, but I never referred to that - from the beginning I was referring to his risk of expulsion if caught lying, which is FAR worse a risk than any penalty he'll face from these BS charges.

    You want to be stupid and resist arrest, that's your right. Please by all means do that and let us all know how it works out for ya.

    I doubt it, as the people I care about don't break the law. If there was actual abuse I'd support and help sue and take those people down. If this happened say to my nephew and not Johnson, I'd probably tell him he was an idiot and to straighten up as well as tell him he was lucky he wasn't shot.
    First of all, the only 'law' he broke was not behaving like a good little sheep, kissing the boots of the ABC idiots. And of course it cannot happen to good people, until it does. I imagine Johnson or his family ever imagined an honor student, on the honor committee, student leader, would be bloodied by police while breaking no laws either. But it happened, and you're defending the cops.

    You brought up Ferguson, I brought up how the accusations of racism and "hands up don't shoot" was based on a lie, just like the accusations of racism by many now are a lie.
    The accusations of racism weren't based on a lie. I guess like most people who dismissed the DOJ report, you didn't read any of it.

    Dig deep enough in any police force and you'll find something someone did wrong.
    You're really bucking for that authoritarian label. That wasn't just 'something.' They stopped the wrong guy, and instead of admitting it and sending him home, they beat him, charged him with destruction of property for bleeding on him, when sued by that person, the department with approval all the way at the top manufactured another BS charge of assaulting an officer, a YEAR AFTER HE WAS BEATEN. So this was sanctioned from the top, and the cops who did this to him faced no penalty. That was one incident. There were many more - it was a department that thrived on abuse of authority, from top to bottom.

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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Let's review:
    There's nothing to review.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    So you changed the goal post to the Virginia Penal Code, but I never referred to that - from the beginning I was referring to his risk of expulsion if caught lying, which is FAR worse a risk than any penalty he'll face from these BS charges.
    I'm the one who quoted and linked the Virginia penal code yesterday. This entire thread is about the charges and arrest of Johnson. I mentioned in post #23 about criminal court - which you'll have to admit has to do with the Virginia Penal Code;

    Quote Originally Posted by "Ockham
    He is getting due process and will get that due process in court.

    Quote Originally Posted by "Ockham
    First of all, the only 'law' he broke was not behaving like a good little sheep, kissing the boots of the ABC idiots.
    That's incorrect and a lie as I've already provided the actual charges, links to the Penal Code and you yourself linked the police charges which did not show "not behaving like a good little sheep" as a charge. You're immature and naive posts are getting tiresome.

    Quote Originally Posted by "Ockham
    The accusations of racism weren't based on a lie. I guess like most people who dismissed the DOJ report, you didn't read any of it.
    The shooting of Brown was not based on racism nor was there any evidence of racism as a motivating factor. That's a fact from your DoJ report. You choose to ignore it and recycle talking points - that's your problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by "Ockham
    You're really bucking for that authoritarian label.
    You think I care what you label me? Pfft!

    Quote Originally Posted by "Ockham
    That wasn't just 'something.' They stopped the wrong guy, and instead of admitting it and sending him home, they beat him, charged him with destruction of property for bleeding on him, when sued by that person, the department with approval all the way at the top manufactured another BS charge of assaulting an officer, a YEAR AFTER HE WAS BEATEN. So this was sanctioned from the top, and the cops who did this to him faced no penalty. That was one incident. There were many more - it was a department that thrived on abuse of authority, from top to bottom.
    Irrelevant to this topic.

    Any other BS notions and regurgitation of nonsense you'd like to discuss - discuss it with someone who likes to be jerked around. I'd rather deal in facts.... you don't seem to have any.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    There's nothing to review.

    I'm the one who quoted and linked the Virginia penal code yesterday. This entire thread is about the charges and arrest of Johnson. I mentioned in post #23 about criminal court - which you'll have to admit has to do with the Virginia Penal Code;
    This thread is about the incident. I missed the part where you're named thread police and get to limit discussion of the consequences to a student at UVA to the VA penal code, when as a student he's also subject to the honor code and can be expelled for lying to police. You were wrong and said the honor code didn't apply - it does. You could have just accepted you were wrong and we'd have moved on long ago

    That's incorrect and a lie as I've already provided the actual charges, links to the Penal Code and you yourself linked the police charges which did not show "not behaving like a good little sheep" as a charge. You're immature and naive posts are getting tiresome.
    One charge was either being drunk or swearing, we're not sure, but he was charged with that because of how he dealt with the police. The obstruction charge was explicitly about him not behaving like a subservient sheep. There was no underlying crime. He didn't present fake ID. He didn't commit assault. He didn't lie, steal, etc. The only "victim" you can point to are the ABC assholes, maybe the police, whose feelings were hurt. If the police weren't on scene, he's turned away from the bar and nothing more happens.....

    The shooting of Brown was not based on racism nor was there any evidence of racism as a motivating factor. That's a fact from your DoJ report. You choose to ignore it and recycle talking points - that's your problem.
    You keep bringing up Brown, I keep pointing out I'm not talking about that incident...

    Irrelevant to this topic.
    OK, so now you're just not even trying to have a reasonable discussion. You say I'm recycling talking points, but when I bring up an incident that indicts the leadership of the Ferguson PD in an egregious case of police abuse of power, you simply dismiss it as "irrelevant."

    Any other BS notions and regurgitation of nonsense you'd like to discuss - discuss it with someone who likes to be jerked around. I'd rather deal in facts.... you don't seem to have any.
    For someone with no facts, I've had no problem debunking you.

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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    [

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    One charge was either being drunk or swearing, we're not sure, but he was charged with that because of how he dealt with the police.
    You're sure, you linked the actual charges remember? What makes you suddenly "unsure"?

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You keep bringing up Brown, I keep pointing out I'm not talking about that incident...
    No I keep responding to your posts which bring up Ferguson. There's a difference.


    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    OK, so now you're just not even trying to have a reasonable discussion.
    I'm not? What am I doing --- ask your magic 8 ball and when you do shake it vigorously.


    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You say I'm recycling talking points, but when I bring up an incident that indicts the leadership of the Ferguson PD in an egregious case of police abuse of power, you simply dismiss it as "irrelevant."
    You're recyling talking points... the constant vomiting of "act like a sheep" was boring the first time you used it, not to mention the next 8 times.


    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    For someone with no facts, I've had no problem debunking you.
    Only in your own mind. Debunking requires facts. The only fact you've provided is a link to the actual police paperwork. Everything else has been "hands up don't shoot" regurgitation.

    Really though... show me a court case that used the UVA "Honor Code".... That's gotta be one of the biggest fails I've seen on DP in a long time.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    You're sure, you linked the actual charges remember? What makes you suddenly "unsure"?
    The code is 18.2-388. Some text: "If any person profanely curses or swears or is intoxicated in public."

    The summons description was public intoxication, but according to the UVa VP, he passed a breathalyzer test. But we saw him swearing on the video. Are you sure which part of 18.2-388 he supposedly violated?

    No I keep responding to your posts which bring up Ferguson. There's a difference.
    "Hands up don't shoot" isn't part of the DOJ report.

    I'm not? What am I doing --- ask your magic 8 ball and when you do shake it vigorously.
    Changing goal posts, diverting, blindly defending police misconduct, etc.

    You're recyling talking points... the constant vomiting of "act like a sheep" was boring the first time you used it, not to mention the next 8 times.
    I am not sure how else to make the point you keep ignoring. His "crime" here was based entirely on a failure to show asshole cops the proper respect, while they question him and detain him on BS charges. I guess we can just agree to disagree that it's a problem.

    Only in your own mind. Debunking requires facts. The only fact you've provided is a link to the actual police paperwork. Everything else has been "hands up don't shoot" regurgitation.
    And what facts have you brought?

    Really though... show me a court case that used the UVA "Honor Code".... That's gotta be one of the biggest fails I've seen on DP in a long time.
    What's LMMFAO funny is you seem to believe you've made a legitimate point. Why would Johnson only care about penalties that "a court" could impose here? If that's all he cares about, he's an idiot and so is his attorney, and the evidence is neither is an idiot.

    First of all, the charges are BS and will either be dismissed (VERY likely) or otherwise be bargained down to a big fat nothing (keep clean for six months, a year, and it's expunged, etc.) Second, if he's shown to have lied, expulsion from UVa, in mid semester, in his third year, as an honor student and student leader, would be FAR, FAR worse than any penalties for a first time offender on these BS charges. So if he's smart, which he is - an honor student at UVa isn't easy - the one thing he will NOT do under any circumstance is threaten his future at UVa, which he would do by lying to police or to the public.

    Of course, you know this but can't admit it because you don't want to admit you were wrong about the Honor Code applying off campus. That's also quite funny.

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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    The summons description was public intoxication, but according to the UVa VP, he passed a breathalyzer test.
    Link the breathalyzer test.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    "Hands up don't shoot" isn't part of the DOJ report.
    Actually it was, Page 32.

    Quote Originally Posted by DOJ report on Shooting of Michael Brown
    However, Witness 108 refused to provide additional details to either county or federal authorities, citing community sentiment to
    support a “hands up” surrender narrative
    as his reason to remain silent.
    Also page 48
    Quote Originally Posted by DOJ report on Shooting of Michael Brown
    Witness 133 also acknowledged that she has been watching the news and “hands up” had become the “mantra” of the protesters.
    http://www.justice.gov/sites/default...el_brown_1.pdf

    But I agree "Hands up don't shoot" isn't relevant to the Johnson case, legally speaking.


    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Changing goal posts, diverting, blindly defending police misconduct, etc.
    You're losing your argument and making baseless accusations won't change that.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I am not sure how else to make the point you keep ignoring. His "crime" here was based entirely on a failure to show asshole cops the proper respect, while they question him and detain him on BS charges. I guess we can just agree to disagree that it's a problem.
    His crime was trying to gain access to a bar being under age and then resisting ABC officers when questioned about it. Legally in Virginia the drinking age is 21.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    And what facts have you brought?
    You can go read my prior posts. If you think I'm going to restate them all over again you're very mistaken.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    What's LMMFAO funny is you seem to believe you've made a legitimate point.
    I've not only made legitimate points, I've made your views look petty, irrelevant and inconsequential given the facts of what we currently know. Your view are based on baggage, emotion and assumption ... mine are based on facts currently know. It's real easy to discern my points and to validate them - it's also very easy to see your accusations are based on bupkus.


    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    First of all, the charges are BS and will either be dismissed (VERY likely) or otherwise be bargained down to a big fat nothing (keep clean for six months, a year, and it's expunged, etc.) Second, if he's shown to have lied, expulsion from UVa, in mid semester, in his third year, as an honor student and student leader, would be FAR, FAR worse than any penalties for a first time offender on these BS charges. So if he's smart, which he is - an honor student at UVa isn't easy - the one thing he will NOT do under any circumstance is threaten his future at UVa, which he would do by lying to police or to the public.
    That may or may not be... if he has no priors and given the political sensitivity of the case ... you may be correct. I will wait and see... you I'm have already made up your mind, which has been the problem with your posts in this thread - you fail to see facts and have made up your mind. It shows a lack of maturity and knowledge but I certainly support your doing it.


    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Of course, you know this but can't admit it because you don't want to admit you were wrong about the Honor Code applying off campus. That's also quite funny.
    I think I already stated it might be the case but I'm smart enough not to bet on how this will play out, whereas you are not.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Link the breathalyzer test.
    So you're sure that was the crime charged? And what evidence do YOU have he was in fact drunk? Less than I do, as it's very unlikely the VP would misstate such an easily proved fact, one way or the other.

    BTW, I skipped your references to the DOJ report on the Michael Brown shooting. After saying 10 times I was referring to the DOJ report on the Ferguson PD, I don't know why you're continuing to bring up the Brown shooting. They're different subjects, covered by different reports. You can find the link to the report here.

    His crime was trying to gain access to a bar being under age and then resisting ABC officers when questioned about it. Legally in Virginia the drinking age is 21.
    It's a crime to TRY to enter a bar while under age 21? Holy cow - almost everyone I knew including me committed CRIMINAL ACTS in college!!! And why didn't they charge him with this supposed "crime"?

    And he "resisted" with "NO THRT/FORCE." Aka, didn't show authority the proper respect. Which is the point..... In a sane world, ABC agents don't use force to take down people suspected of trying to enter a bar while underage.

    I've not only made legitimate points, I've made your views look petty, irrelevant and inconsequential given the facts of what we currently know. Your view are based on baggage, emotion and assumption ... mine are based on facts currently know. It's real easy to discern my points and to validate them - it's also very easy to see your accusations are based on bupkus.
    OK....

    That may or may not be... if he has no priors and given the political sensitivity of the case ... you may be correct. I will wait and see... you I'm have already made up your mind, which has been the problem with your posts in this thread - you fail to see facts and have made up your mind. It shows a lack of maturity and knowledge but I certainly support your doing it.
    The original issue was whether the Honor Code applies, and you said it didn't because it happened off campus, and were proved wrong. Then you said it didn't matter - all that matters was the Virginia Penal Code and the courts. That's also clearly wrong. Expulsion from UVa would be far worse than any criminal penalties in this case, even if not dismissed, which is likely. I'm not sure what your point is now.

    I think I already stated it might be the case but I'm smart enough not to bet on how this will play out, whereas you are not.
    We're both speculating....
    Last edited by JasperL; 03-22-15 at 02:22 PM.

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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    So you're sure that was the crime charged?
    You posted the link to the charges... you tell me. What's changed?

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    And what evidence do YOU have he was in fact drunk?
    I never claimed he was in fact, drunk. Where's the link to the breathalyzer? No link? But you claimed he blew clear.... just this morning.... right here:

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    ....but according to the UVa VP, he passed a breathalyzer test.
    So where's the verifiable evidence he passed the breathalyzer?

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    It's a crime to TRY to enter a bar while under age 21? Holy cow - almost everyone I knew including me committed CRIMINAL ACTS in college!!! And why didn't they charge him with this supposed "crime"?
    I never said it wasn't common... but yes, it's a crime. It gets worse when the person acts like a spoiled child and resist the very minor ticket and then is charged with two additional misdemeanors for resisting. I thought college was supposed to make kids smarter... it sure wasn't working on Johnson.


    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    And he "resisted" with "NO THRT/FORCE." Aka, didn't show authority the proper respect. Which is the point.....
    You've failed to state what significance that is. I'll give you another shot... what's it mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    The original issue was whether the Honor Code ....
    Irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    We're both speculating....
    No, I said I'd wait and see, you speculated.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    You posted the link to the charges... you tell me. What's changed?
    Note the use of 'or' - "If any person profanely curses or swears or is intoxicated in public." Which one is he accused of doing?

    I never claimed he was in fact, drunk. Where's the link to the breathalyzer? No link? But you claimed he blew clear.... just this morning.... right here:

    So where's the verifiable evidence he passed the breathalyzer?
    The statements by the VP are the best evidence available. I tend to go with the best available evidence. What is your strategy?

    I never said it wasn't common... but yes, it's a crime.
    He wasn't charged with this "crime" that I've been unable to find in any statute. Do you have a cite to the VA Code?

    It gets worse when the person acts like a spoiled child and resist the very minor ticket and then is charged with two additional misdemeanors for resisting. I thought college was supposed to make kids smarter... it sure wasn't working on Johnson.
    A minor ticket for what charge? He didn't offer a fake ID, wasn't trying to buy alcohol. So what would this ticket have alleged? And the point is "resisting" in this case meant didn't show the proper respect to assholes.

    You've failed to state what significance that is. I'll give you another shot... what's it mean?
    I'm not sure what you mean. The statute lists a number of variations, and one of them is the use of threats or force to impede an officer. He didn't use threats or force, so presumably impeded them some other way, by not kissing their boots or something... I'm not sure what form this "resistance" took.

    No, I said I'd wait and see, you speculated.
    At a minimum, you've speculated that he did in fact "resist" the officers. When did you see this 'resistance?' It wasn't on any video, and all we have are the allegations of the ABC agents, and lots of students who contradict those allegations.
    Last edited by JasperL; 03-22-15 at 04:09 PM.

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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Yeah, OK, but that's all beside the point. You're 'betting money' there's a hidden video, then invented a bunch of nefarious reasons why someone unknown is hiding a video that you have conjured up out of thin air.

    You say you know some young people and "they" live for this kind of stuff. So therefore the UVa students involved in this incident are like those young people you know and therefore must have recorded the whole thing. It's a HHHHHHHHHHHUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEE and baseless leap......
    ...and yet it's nowhere near the leaps being made by those who are accusing the officers. Hypocrisy???
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

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