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Thread: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

  1. #131
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by americanwoman View Post
    Actually the Virginia ABC has admitted injuries occurred during the arrest per an article from 2 days ago


    The Cavalier Daily :: University student, Honor Committee member Martese Johnson arrested
    Please stop confusing her with the facts.
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Not true, from the UVa Code of Honor website: The Code of Honor, University of Virginia
    The UVA Code of Honor is not admissible in court and this incident did not occur on UVA premises. Just like Johnsons chess club membership card is just as irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    So he was bound by it already, but when he proclaimed himself a student, and therefore subject to the Honor Code, he definitely made himself subject to expulsion if he's found to have lied.
    He was not bound by any such nonsense.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    The warrant, and when they cited the crime he was alleged to have committed.
    There is no warrant issues at the time of his arrest. What are you talking about? Link this warrant.....

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    OK, that's good advice. But why is that a reasonable expectation - is a free person obligated to behave like a sheep when dealing with the police?
    If they wish to not spend time in jail or be injured. If they wish to spend time in jail and get injured fighting the police ... they can be non-sheep if that makes them feel like a man. One has to pick their battles and where they want to fight ... read Sun Tzu.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You're sure.... We'll see I guess.
    Nothing so far. If something comes out that shows they did act with force not commensurate with the situation they still may just be suspended. As you can see in that Victoria Texas case, the cop actually assaulted an tazed a 76 year old man for absolutely no legal reason and was only fired.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I disagree, and it's funny that you're asserting any opinion other than yours is unreasonable.
    If you had a reasonable view I'd state it was not my view but still valid. You don't have a reasonable view given the known evidence.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  3. #133
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Why not wait until we know the whole story before jumping to a conclusion??
    Because the fact that this happened at all is outrageous and ABC shouldn't even exist. It still amazes me that we can ship someone to war at the age of 17 but if somebody looks younger than 21 and wants a beer the State dispatches der SS to slice his head open and cart him off to jail.

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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    The UVA Code of Honor is not admissible in court and this incident did not occur on UVA premises. Just like Johnsons chess club membership card is just as irrelevant.
    What I've said is he'll get expelled from school. Whether he's guilty or not, and therefore dismissed/expelled isn't tried in a court but by the UVa Honor Committee...you know, the committee Johnson was a member of.

    He was not bound by any such nonsense.
    I just quoted you from the relevant source. I can cite the bylaws as well - I've already done so in this thread. It says the same thing - he is bound by the Honor Code and faces expulsion from UVa if convicted of lying in Charlottesville or the county. He explicitly brought his acts within the Honor Code by identifying himself as a student. It's just fact - no sense in beating your head against proof you're wrong. At least, if you want to continue to do that, cite some evidence....

    There is no warrant issues at the time of his arrest. What are you talking about? Link this warrant.....
    The Cavalier Daily :: Johnson's warrant of arrest shows two misdemeanor charges

    If they wish to not spend time in jail or be injured. If they wish to spend time in jail and get injured fighting the police ... they can be non-sheep if that makes them feel like a man. One has to pick their battles and where they want to fight ... read Sun Tzu.
    OK, so we must meekly submit to authority. Great.... We really need an "authoritarian" lean....

    Nothing so far. If something comes out that shows they did act with force not commensurate with the situation they still may just be suspended. As you can see in that Victoria Texas case, the cop actually assaulted an tazed a 76 year old man for absolutely no legal reason and was only fired.
    OK, and that he was only fired demonstrates what? I'm missing the point.

    If you had a reasonable view I'd state it was not my view but still valid. You don't have a reasonable view given the known evidence.
    As I said, I disagree and so do many others. That's fine. I don't think your view is reasonable, so we're looking at it differently, which happens in life when faced with uncertainty.

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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    When I used to try to get into a bar underage the bouncer would tell me to take a hike and then...nothing. That's it. No cops. No blood. I just wasn't allowed in.

  6. #136
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    What I've said is he'll get expelled from school. Whether he's guilty or not, and therefore dismissed/expelled isn't tried in a court but by the UVa Honor Committee...you know, the committee Johnson was a member of.
    Him getting expelled is irrelevant to the court. My view is of the justice system which he is now part. His school or getting expelled from it is the least of his worries.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I just quoted you from the relevant source.
    Still irrelevant.


    The Cavalier Daily :: Johnson's warrant of arrest shows two misdemeanor charges I see - otherwise known as the police paperwork done after the arrest. Thanks for the link.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    OK, so we must meekly submit to authority. Great.... We really need an "authoritarian" lean....
    As I said if you want to spend time in jail for fighting cops and getting injured in the process - I fully support you doing that. Smarter people do smarter things as I've already described.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    OK, and that he was only fired demonstrates what? I'm missing the point.
    That demonstrates ACTUAL police abuse and assault versus the FAKE police abuse and assault being claimed in this, the Johnson case.


    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    As I said, I disagree and so do many others. That's fine. I don't think your view is reasonable, so we're looking at it differently, which happens in life when faced with uncertainty.
    I think your view of what is reasonable is skewed by baggage or by a misrepresentation of other cases. You brought up the Brown case - the accusations of racism and police brutality in that case was shown to be false. Reasonable people understand that - unreasonable people cling on to the belief of "Hands up don't shoot". Believe what you want though - it's a free country.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  7. #137
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Apparently it's enough to need surgery, all of a sudden.

    How come they didn't do surgery on my 15 year old when he fell and cut his head? Some stitches, a few pain pills, and we were on our way. I feel slighted.
    A plastic surgeon probably would have use 10 stitches to sew a reasonably small cut. Head wounds tend to look worse than they are.
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Him getting expelled is irrelevant to the court. My view is of the justice system which he is now part. His school or getting expelled from it is the least of his worries.
    Well, after being shown that the Honor Code does apply to Johnson both on and off campus, and therefore specifically in this case, you've moved the goal posts. And he has no legal worries - the BS charges will either be dismissed or otherwise go away. They're misdemeanors anyway.

    Still irrelevant.
    To what? If he lies, he can be charged with a violation of the Honor Code and expelled from UVa. It's just fact.

    The Cavalier Daily :: Johnson's warrant of arrest shows two misdemeanor charges I see - otherwise known as the police paperwork done after the arrest. Thanks for the link.
    That paperwork lists the charges.... I'm confused.

    As I said if you want to spend time in jail for fighting cops and getting injured in the process - I fully support you doing that. Smarter people do smarter things as I've already described.
    Right, smart people obey authority and don't protest.... like sheep.

    That demonstrates ACTUAL police abuse and assault versus the FAKE police abuse and assault being claimed in this, the Johnson case.
    Maybe if you were on the other end of the "FAKE" police abuse, or someone you cared for, you'd have a different view. I'm sure I would. Most people with any self respect would as well.

    I think your view of what is reasonable is skewed by baggage or by a misrepresentation of other cases. You brought up the Brown case - the accusations of racism and police brutality in that case was shown to be false. Reasonable people understand that - unreasonable people cling on to the belief of "Hands up don't shoot". Believe what you want though - it's a free country.
    I didn't bring up the "Brown case" but the extensive, 100+ page DOJ report on the practices of the Ferguson PD, which included pretty extensive discussion of them beginning with a BS charge, then laying other BS charges on top of the first BS charge when the person being charged did not behave like obedient sheep. My favorite was the FPD charging a person for property damage for BLEEDING ON THE CLOTHES OF POLICE OFFICERS WHO BEAT HIM, for no reason (they had arrested the wrong man). He prolly should have just saluted them properly, kissed their shiny jack boots, and maybe they'd have not charged him for the damage to their uniforms....

    Story here in case you're interested. The Day Ferguson Cops Were Caught in a Bloody Lie - The Daily Beast

    1408378402871.cached.jpg
    Last edited by JasperL; 03-21-15 at 01:37 AM.

  9. #139
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by BrewerBob View Post
    When I used to try to get into a bar underage the bouncer would tell me to take a hike and then...nothing. That's it. No cops. No blood. I just wasn't allowed in.
    That makes no sense - police acting rationally and appropriately under the circumstances. Weird.

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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Exactly - I'd be very interested to see the video of the cops beating Johnson.
    That's an odd interest, but to each his own I guess.
    Education.

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