Page 12 of 33 FirstFirst ... 2101112131422 ... LastLast
Results 111 to 120 of 321

Thread: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

  1. #111
    Kinky
    tres borrachos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    12-15-17 @ 03:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    39,234

    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I'm not relying on that video either.



    I'm giving opinions like everyone else, including those defending the cops.



    Sure: Governing Documents | University of Virginia Honor Committee

    You'll have to look at the bylaws, but upon a guilty verdict, dismissal is the immediate consequence. Page 28 of the bylaws:
    Who's defending the cops? There's nothing to defend, just like there's nothing to convict. You've decided the cops are guilty of something based on no evidence. Some people prefer to wait until there are facts to look at before deciding what the "truth" is.

    Page 28 doesn't say that as a member of the Honor Committee he can be expelled from UVA for lying. Those are the bylaws that cover all UVA Students. You seem very taken by the fact that he's a Member of the Honor Committee, as if being on it means he couldn't possibly do anything wrong. That isn't true. He could probably lose his full scholarship for drinking, too. Let's hope he didn't drink anything.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  2. #112
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 11:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Oh... so I wasn't wrong then....
    Your very wrong on your dismissal of the photograph. It could easily be seen by a grand jury as probable cause of wrong doing. Remember, grand jury's don't convict. But their indictment would pitch it to a trial.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  3. #113
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Tennessee
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    21,853

    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Who's lawyer - HIS lawyer? Of course he would say that.... is there a different source for that like the police who would use the readings and add it to the arrest record?
    You're entitled to assume he's drunk based on what? The COPS? Of course THEY'D say that.....

    Not quite accurate, there were two counts not one. My own source in the OP cites:

    "Johnson was charged on two counts: obstruction of justice without force, and public swearing or intoxication, Charlottesville General District Court records show."
    Which one of those justifies the use of force against him?

    The video doesn't show the crime only the restraint, beligerence and resistance. If it had the crime on it we wouldn't be having this discussion and this would probably be edited for a "COPS" special on television.
    There was no crime except the 'obstruction of justice without force' and swearing/drunkenness. What other crime would be on the tape? And if you're taken down for nothing (let's assume that for a moment), are you obligated to behave like a sheep, perhaps thank the cops for not tazing/shooting you?

    I would have went with resisting arrest, causing a public nuisance, drunk and disorderly... something along those lines but hey - whatever floats your boat.
    It's interesting. He's not charged with an actual crime except for protesting the cops when he was detained for doing nothing wrong. This kind of thing is what was alleged in Ferguson. The cops make a BS 'arrest' then add a bunch of layers of charges when the person objects to the BS arrest. I'm really not clear how that kind of behavior flies with libertarianism, conservatism, or liberalism/progressives.

  4. #114
    Noblesse oblige
    Ockham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    01-27-17 @ 07:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    23,909
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Your very wrong on your dismissal of the photograph. It could easily be seen by a grand jury as probable cause of wrong doing. Remember, grand jury's don't convict. But their indictment would pitch it to a trial.
    Standing on it's own it would not be enough. The actual injury, testimony by the emergency medic and hospital physician would testify head injuries tend to bleed more than injuries in other areas of the body, and if there was a blood alcohol level that alcohol in the blood has a thinning effect which could address the bleeding. The injury itself is factual as would be testimony by witnesses and the police that no "beating" took place. It's one piece of circumstantial evidence that doesn't say much.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  5. #115
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Tennessee
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    21,853

    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Who's defending the cops? There's nothing to defend, just like there's nothing to convict. You've decided the cops are guilty of something based on no evidence. Some people prefer to wait until there are facts to look at before deciding what the "truth" is.
    OK, that's fine....

    Page 28 doesn't say that as a member of the Honor Committee he can be expelled from UVA for lying. Those are the bylaws that cover all UVA Students.
    This is another patented tres borrachos rathole. Right, anyone can be expelled for lying, and as a member of the committee that hears those cases, he knows better than most the penalties.... You asked for evidence, I provided it, now you're splitting hairs. Typical.

    You seem very taken by the fact that he's a Member of the Honor Committee, as if being on it means he couldn't possibly do anything wrong. That isn't true. He could probably lose his full scholarship for drinking, too. Let's hope he didn't drink anything.
    He has an exemplary record as a human being and as a student leader. That's the entire point. Of course that doesn't mean he can't possibly do anything wrong - I never asserted that. It's less likely that a person with his record randomly decided to start swearing at the cops for no reason at all other than he hates cops or chose that moment to be an asshole. His history is one of respecting authority, not acting like a juvenile delinquent.

  6. #116
    Kinky
    tres borrachos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    12-15-17 @ 03:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    39,234

    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    OK, that's fine....



    This is another patented tres borrachos rathole. Right, anyone can be expelled for lying, and as a member of the committee that hears those cases, he knows better than most the penalties.... You asked for evidence, I provided it, now you're splitting hairs. Typical.



    He has an exemplary record as a human being and as a student leader. That's the entire point. Of course that doesn't mean he can't possibly do anything wrong - I never asserted that. It's less likely that a person with his record randomly decided to start swearing at the cops for no reason at all other than he hates cops or chose that moment to be an asshole. His history is one of respecting authority, not acting like a juvenile delinquent.
    An exemplary record as a human being and student leader. And? Most 20 year olds have exemplary records as human beings. Does that make cops guilty of something? And do 20 year olds scream "You ****ing racists" a lot?

    And yes, any UVA Student can get expelled for lying according to the Honor Code. So in other words, him being on The Honor Committee isn't relevant (except to you). As a student of UVA, he would know that.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  7. #117
    Noblesse oblige
    Ockham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    01-27-17 @ 07:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    23,909
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You're entitled to assume he's drunk based on what? The COPS? Of course THEY'D say that.....
    Based on the charges but it's not yet known if there was an actual BAL test - we shall wait and see. And yes, COPS normally don't lie, as when they do and they're caught, they lose credibility within their own department and the charges will be dismissed. Unless of course you're accusing the COPS of manufacturing evidence in this case - to whit I would request you to provide verifiable evidence of such.... which I already know you do not have. See how that works?

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Which one of those justifies the use of force against him?
    You mean the one you left out on purpose or the one you mentioned... hmmm... both depending on the accused demeanor and attitude. Just to clarify let me read to you what those two charges actual entail according to the State of Virginia:

    Quote Originally Posted by VA Penal Code
    18.2-409. Resisting or obstructing execution of legal process.

    Every person acting jointly or in combination with any other person to resist or obstruct the execution of any legal process shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    (Code 1950, 18.1-254.6; 1968, c. 460; 1975, cc. 14, 15.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Virginia Penal Code
    18.2-388. Profane swearing and intoxication in public; penalty; transportation of public inebriates to detoxification center.

    If any person profanely curses or swears or is intoxicated in public, whether such intoxication results from alcohol, narcotic drug or other intoxicant or drug of whatever nature, he shall be deemed guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor. In any area in which there is located a court-approved detoxification center a law-enforcement officer may authorize the transportation, by police or otherwise, of public inebriates to such detoxification center in lieu of arrest; however, no person shall be involuntarily detained in such center.

    (Code 1950, 18.1-237; 1960, c. 358; 1964, c. 434; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1979, c. 654; 1982, c. 666; 1983, c. 187; 1990, c. 965.)
    Here's the link for your enjoyment: LIS > Code of Virginia


    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    There was no crime except the 'obstruction of justice without force' and swearing/drunkenness. What other crime would be on the tape?
    Possibly this one:
    LIS > Code of Virginia > 18.2-415

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    And if you're taken down for nothing (let's assume that for a moment), are you obligated to behave like a sheep, perhaps thank the cops for not tazing/shooting you?
    In todays world and given the lack of police training - yes he probably should thank those cops for not tazing or shooting him. If you don't wish to go along peacefully to work out the problems you are being accused of, you might well expect such resistance will be met with overwhelming force and possibly injury. You see, as Newton stated: Each action has a equal and opposite reaction.



    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    It's interesting. He's not charged with an actual crime except for protesting the cops when he was detained for doing nothing wrong.
    He was charges with two misdemeanors. Misdemeanors are a crime in every state in the land.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    This kind of thing is what was alleged in Ferguson. The cops make a BS 'arrest' then add a bunch of layers of charges when the person objects to the BS arrest. I'm really not clear how that kind of behavior flies with libertarianism, conservatism, or liberalism/progressives.
    Again, Brown attacked a cop got shot, ran away and then charged the cop and was killed. Browns dead, the cop is exonerated and the "hand up don't shoot" should have been named "Hands up this is all a lie".
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  8. #118
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Tennessee
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    21,853

    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    An exemplary record as a human being and student leader. And?
    As I said, and you quoted: "It's less likely that a person with his record randomly decided to start swearing at the cops for no reason at all other than he hates cops or chose that moment to be an asshole. His history is one of respecting authority, not acting like a juvenile delinquent."

    I'm not sure why I respond to you sometimes - you quote me, ignore what I just said, then ask the same question, again....

    And yes, any UVA Student can get expelled for lying according to the Honor Code. So in other words, him being on The Honor Committee isn't relevant (except to you). As a student of UVA, he would know that.
    Did I say that only members of the Honor Committee can be expelled for lying? No, I went to UVa and so understand very well that the Honor Code applies to everyone. And his being on the honor committee speaks to his character. That's relevant to me because it's a position that by definition indicates a respect for authority, and a history of doing so at UVa. Of course that doesn't mean he cannot behave badly, only that it's completely unexpected given his record.

  9. #119
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Tennessee
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    21,853

    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Based on the charges but it's not yet known if there was an actual BAL test - we shall wait and see. And yes, COPS normally don't lie, as when they do and they're caught, they lose credibility within their own department and the charges will be dismissed. Unless of course you're accusing the COPS of manufacturing evidence in this case - to whit I would request you to provide verifiable evidence of such.... which I already know you do not have. See how that works?
    And kids on the Honor Committee at UVa don't normally lie either. They get expelled.

    You mean the one you left out on purpose or the one you mentioned... hmmm... both depending on the accused demeanor and attitude. Just to clarify let me read to you what those two charges actual entail according to the State of Virginia:
    So if your attitude is bad, you should expect to be taken to the ground, bloodied, and arrested? Interesting view of appropriate role of the police you have. I don't agree.

    Here's the link for your enjoyment: LIS > Code of Virginia
    I've read them - and they pointed out his "obstruction" was without force.

    Right, another crime he MIGHT be charged with, but wasn't. Any more - assault, rape, murder, drug dealing? Why not while we're speculating?

    In todays world and given the lack of police training - yes he probably should thank those cops for not tazing or shooting him. If you don't wish to go along peacefully to work out the problems you are being accused of, you might well expect such resistance will be met with overwhelming force and possibly injury. You see, as Newton stated: Each action has a equal and opposite reaction.
    We can agree to disagree that the bar for police is now "don't kill or taze an unarmed man over a fake ID or being drunk and disorderly."

    He was charges with two misdemeanors. Misdemeanors are a crime in every state in the land.
    Yeah, and you probably were guilty of a half dozen misdemeanors today - if not today, this week. I don't believe you would accept getting taken to the ground, bloodied and arrested for those violations.

    Again, Brown attacked a cop got shot, ran away and then charged the cop and was killed. Browns dead, the cop is exonerated and the "hand up don't shoot" should have been named "Hands up this is all a lie".
    Not what I was talking about - I was referring to the DOJ report on the police practices in general in Ferguson. I guess you missed that thread.

  10. #120
    Kinky
    tres borrachos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    12-15-17 @ 03:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    39,234

    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    As I said, and you quoted: "It's less likely that a person with his record randomly decided to start swearing at the cops for no reason at all other than he hates cops or chose that moment to be an asshole. His history is one of respecting authority, not acting like a juvenile delinquent."

    I'm not sure why I respond to you sometimes - you quote me, ignore what I just said, then ask the same question, again....


    Did I say that only members of the Honor Committee can be expelled for lying? No, I went to UVa and so understand very well that the Honor Code applies to everyone. And his being on the honor committee speaks to his character. That's relevant to me because it's a position that by definition indicates a respect for authority, and a history of doing so at UVa. Of course that doesn't mean he cannot behave badly, only that it's completely unexpected given his record.
    So any wrongdoing from him is just completely unexpected given his "record" so that's why you have made up your mind about the cops. Okay. Makes sense coming from you.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

Page 12 of 33 FirstFirst ... 2101112131422 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •