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Thread: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

  1. #91
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Classic - too bad we don't have an "authoritarian" lean option, because it's only an authoritarian who would cite NOT being tazed or shot as some kind of evidence of cops behaving appropriately.
    I see the context of my posts are flying way above your head. I'll certainly go "ducks and bunnies" in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    The circumstances as to how he got that injury are what we're discussing - he showed a valid ID, and wasn't charged with using force against the police.
    Already addressed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Somehow he ended up with 10 stitches.
    Yeah it's what happens when he's drunk and resists arrest.
    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    That he might not have been "beaten" are irrelevant.
    It's very relevant when such accusations are lies.
    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Their use of force caused that injury.
    And Johnsons resistance to that force caused his injury.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Oh, right, it's irrelevant unless the person has a record, then we can damn him based on his past, but when the record shows he's unlikely to be the kind of person to take on the police for no reason, we can disregard that and assume the cops acted entirely appropriately. Got it.
    That's very unlikely - the majority of your posts show you certainly don't "got it" or much of anything for that matter. Whether or not he had a prior record is irrelevant because it was not cited as a contributing factor for restraining him. Simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    The resisting police and belligerence are allegations.
    No it's fact, shown in the video. Watch the video.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    We don't have any belligerence on tape, unless that includes protesting what the kid believed was a BS arrest.
    Watch the video.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    It's not that you don't "hate the state in all cases."
    Well that's good!

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    But in this case you're going out of your way to give the benefit of the doubt to the police state.
    I'm going by what facts are available... sorry that doesn't fit with your predisposed attitude towards the police and all.... I apologize as I'm not ruled by any one emotion or set of emotions and would rather discuss issues based on facts and not the baggage you seemed to have brought with you in this thread. You're baggage is also irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    And, unbelievably for a conservative/libertarian, claiming that he wasn't SHOT means the police were properly trained!!! Seriously - that's insane.
    Yes because all libertarians HATE cops isn't that right? And we're all "anarchists" and should be cheering cops being investigated and busted.... you're childish posts of libertarianism are amusing I'll give you that.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    They didn't even charge him with using any force while "obstructing justice." They didn't charge him with using a fake ID. He did nothing wrong, and you're defending idiots who escalated what should have been a kid being turned away and going about the rest of his night into a bloody arrest. At a minimum, the bar you expect the police state to meet is so low as to be nearly non-existent. That's a very odd view for someone who otherwise distrusts the exercise of state power.
    Charges can be added after arrest at the DA's discretion. : Already addressed.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    The evidence has been shown. The photo is evidence of excessive force.
    Only in bizzaro world - not in the United States court of law. I see you don't know much about the law. It's okay - an easy mistake to make.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    It doesn't prove anything except that the idea that there is no video of the actual police brutality because it takes time to capture it on video is ridiculous. For all we know the bouncer did that to him. Or his roommate. Or he tripped and fell and hit his head on a railing. But unlike other people, I haven't decided anything is true without proof.
    .

    Actually the Virginia ABC has admitted injuries occurred during the arrest per an article from 2 days ago


    The Cavalier Daily :: University student, Honor Committee member Martese Johnson arrested


    Virginia ABC issued a statement on the incident Wednesday afternoon.

    "The uniformed ABC Agents observed and approached the individual after he was refused entry to a licensed establishment," the statement read. "A determination was made by the agents to further detain the individual based on their observations and further questioning. In the course of an arrest being made, the arrested individual sustained injuries. The individual received treatment for his injuries at a local hospital and was released."
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Several articles have reported he passed a breathalyzer test. We're not even sure he was drunk.

    Can't find that at all, the lawyer makes no mention of that during the statement.

    UVA's Martese Johnson is known as leader in Chicago, not problem for police - Chicago Tribune


    If you watch the lawyer make the statement, you'll start to notice something, all he talks about is how wonderful a kid he is.... Interesting.

    Note also at 3:27 Martese Johnson, tries to read the statement and his lawyer cuts him off doing the statement himself. This is being very careful, smart actually.



    Look, obviously Martese Johnson is an outstanding student, and an all around stand up guy. Johnson, could have done something stupid, we don't know. The cops very well may have used too much force, but we don't know this, if there is evidence other than the eyewitness and the media guessing, I can't condemn these cops. we simply don't know.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I see the context of my posts are flying way above your head. I'll certainly go "ducks and bunnies" in the future.
    Not being shot or tazed in that scenario should be the lowest possible bar imaginable, IMO. We can agree to disagree that they deserve credit for NOT shooting him....

    Already addressed this. Yeah it's what happens when he's drunk and resists arrest.
    The lawyer said he passed the breathalyzer and he wasn't charged with resisting arrest.

    It's very relevant when such accusations are lies. And Johnsons resistance to that force caused his injury.
    Alleged obstruction of justice without force is what he was charged with.

    That's very unlikely - the majority of your posts show you certainly don't "got it" or much of anything for that matter. Whether or not he had a prior record is irrelevant because it was not cited as a contributing factor for restraining him. Simple.
    The point is obvious - if someone is arrested by the cops and he DOES have a bad history, it's relevant - or people say it's relevant, and use that history of thuggery to justify use of force by police. If it matters when the history of the alleged perp is bad, it should matter when it's exemplary, as in this case.

    No it's fact, shown in the video. Watch the video.
    I've seen the video, and I don't see a crime there. It's a crime to call the cops "f'ing racists?" What crime is that? He's only allowed to praise the police? If one objects to what one believes is police misconduct, that objection is a CRIME? That's not my idea of a free society....

    Yes because all libertarians HATE cops isn't that right? And we're all "anarchists" and should be cheering cops being investigated and busted.... you're childish posts of libertarianism are amusing I'll give you that.
    Of course I didn't say that at all - nice strawman. I'm objecting to one very specific assertion - that because he wasn't SHOT or TAZED indicates cops behaved appropriately/were well trained.

    Charges can be added after arrest at the DA's discretion. : Already addressed.
    Sure, and maybe he'll be charged with dealing drugs, rape, murder... As of now, the evidence we have at this point, they haven't made that allegation.

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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by americanwoman View Post
    Actually the Virginia ABC has admitted injuries occurred during the arrest per an article from 2 days ago


    The Cavalier Daily :: University student, Honor Committee member Martese Johnson arrested



    That plus when it's a case of abuse, usually the cops throw as many felonies at the victim they can. here they are barely charging him with a misdemeanor.
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    It's not ridiculous at all. Are you suggesting that almost all encounters with cops and teens are recorded from start to finish?



    But there is no witnesses alleging any of that. They do allege two officers took him to the ground - not the bouncer, not his roommate. But If you want to make up scenarios, it's also possible the officers used a billy club on his head - same number of witnesses allege that as it was the bouncer or a roommate, or he tripped and fell and hit his head.....



    It's his word and the word of bystanders. Should I assume they're lying. The kid was on the honor committee. He knows lying can get him expelled - that's what the honor committee does as a matter of fact...
    I'm not suggesting that all encounters are recorded. I'm also not the one who is relying on the recording which happened after he was already injured as proof that the cops brutalized him.

    Okay, they "allege". Great. Let's see it. And by the way, it's obvious why I said that. Nobody on here knows what happened. We weren't there. I don't know any more than you know. I'm not the one who is stating what happened there. You are.

    Can you show me where he can get expelled from UVA for lying? Link or something?
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Can't find that at all, the lawyer makes no mention of that during the statement.
    I'm not sure what's true, but here's one report: Beating of UVA student prompts call to disempower alcohol officers | Reuters

    Johnson apparently was showing the agents his Illinois ID when he was grabbed by the neck and pushed onto a hard brick surface in front of a pub he was attempting to enter, UVA's vice president for diversity, Marcus Martin, told CNN.

    A breathalyzer test showed that Johnson was not intoxicated at the time of his arrest, Martin said. He said the student ended up with 10 stitches, lacerations on his forehead, multiple bruises and facial swelling.
    So it's a VP at UVa making that claim. He could be mistaken, I don't know - haven't seen any evidence either way.

    If you watch the lawyer make the statement, you'll start to notice something, all he talks about is how wonderful a kid he is.... Interesting.

    Note also at 3:27 Martese Johnson, tries to read the statement and his lawyer cuts him off doing the statement himself. This is being very careful, smart actually.

    Look, obviously Martese Johnson is an outstanding student, and an all around stand up guy. Johnson, could have done something stupid, we don't know. The cops very well may have used too much force, but we don't know this, if there is evidence other than the eyewitness and the media guessing, I can't condemn these cops. we simply don't know.
    I'm not sure what scenario indicates these cops handled this correctly. It's possible, I guess, but I can't imagine a classroom where the instructor says this is the right way to deal with a student in a college town turned away from a bar because he's underage and MIGHT have a fake ID.

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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Can't find that at all, the lawyer makes no mention of that during the statement.

    UVA's Martese Johnson is known as leader in Chicago, not problem for police - Chicago Tribune


    If you watch the lawyer make the statement, you'll start to notice something, all he talks about is how wonderful a kid he is.... Interesting.

    Note also at 3:27 Martese Johnson, tries to read the statement and his lawyer cuts him off doing the statement himself. This is being very careful, smart actually.



    Look, obviously Martese Johnson is an outstanding student, and an all around stand up guy. Johnson, could have done something stupid, we don't know. The cops very well may have used too much force, but we don't know this, if there is evidence other than the eyewitness and the media guessing, I can't condemn these cops. we simply don't know.
    The rest of your post was interesting, but the bolded part at the end sums it up.

    Back to the attorney. I saw the presser they gave and noticed that the attorney really didn't seem to want him to talk, and you're right - that's very smart.
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    Re: Students, governor want U.Va. student arrest investigated

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Not being shot or tazed in that scenario should be the lowest possible bar imaginable, IMO. We can agree to disagree that they deserve credit for NOT shooting him....
    The lawyer said he passed the breathalyzer and he wasn't charged with resisting arrest.
    Who's lawyer - HIS lawyer? Of course he would say that.... is there a different source for that like the police who would use the readings and add it to the arrest record?

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Alleged obstruction of justice without force is what he was charged with.
    Not quite accurate, there were two counts not one. My own source in the OP cites:

    "Johnson was charged on two counts: obstruction of justice without force, and public swearing or intoxication, Charlottesville General District Court records show."

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    The point is obvious - if someone is arrested by the cops and he DOES have a bad history, it's relevant
    That is only given evidence after the fact. At the initial stop and arrest, they had no knowledge of his prior or if he had any at all. Can you provide facts and a source that shows the police ran a background on him before they arrested him and restrained him?

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I've seen the video, and I don't see a crime there. It's a crime to call the cops "f'ing racists?" What crime is that? He's only allowed to praise the police? If one objects to what one believes is police misconduct, that objection is a CRIME? That's not my idea of a free society....
    The video doesn't show the crime only the restraint, beligerence and resistance. If it had the crime on it we wouldn't be having this discussion and this would probably be edited for a "COPS" special on television.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Of course I didn't say that at all - nice strawman. I'm objecting to one very specific assertion - that because he wasn't SHOT or TAZED indicates cops behaved appropriately/were well trained.
    No it's not a strawman, you mentioned your surprise more than once.... and here they are:

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL
    And, unbelievably for a conservative/libertarian, claiming that he wasn't SHOT means the police were properly trained!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL
    It never ceases to amaze me how the people who claim to distrust the 'state' and the exercise of state power rush to the defense of the police 'state.'
    Perhaps if you didn't call into question my supposed "lean" and then accuse me of being authoritarian, I wouldn't have mentioned it.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL
    Sure, and maybe he'll be charged with dealing drugs, rape, murder... As of now, the evidence we have at this point, they haven't made that allegation.
    I would have went with resisting arrest, causing a public nuisance, drunk and disorderly... something along those lines but hey - whatever floats your boat.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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