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Thread: Ted Cruz renews call for unlimited campaign contributions

  1. #41
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    Re: Ted Cruz renews call for unlimited campaign contributions

    "Hello Forest, can't see you, I'm looking at this tree..."


    That's most of the discussion on this thread. The problem, in the end isn't the money spent in political campaign donations. It's not which side get's more from which cause both have their cash cows. Dem's rely more on big single donations and the GOP get's theirs through massed smaller contributions through various groups. The problem is the people voting. Seriously. And no amount of complaining about the "Money in politics" is going to fix that. As long as we keep allowing power to congeal in DC, the worse the situation is going to get. That's why the nation was set up as a Representative Republic, to dilute the influence of wealth and keep the political class as it were, as accountable to the local level as possible.

    The only real solution would be to limit campaign spending, not donations. But that again hits the wall of what you restrict outside groups to doing. And that's the rub. If only the campaign's can spend say, 5 million on senate campaign for example... how do you constitutionally justify telling a group of people not part of the campaign they cannot use speech to support the candidate? You cannot and it would immoral to try.

    The people, need to be wiser voters, but that's not gonna happen with out current level of bribed stupidity and terribly divided country.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Ted Cruz renews call for unlimited campaign contributions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Ted Cruz renews call for unlimited campaign contributions - The Washington Post



    I thoroughly support this proposal, as it would eliminate the last of my demonstrably false idea that the non-rich have any voice in our government.
    This will help all of the Hollywood elite, unions and Wall Street donors who will no doubt finance his opponent's campaign.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  3. #43
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    Re: Ted Cruz renews call for unlimited campaign contributions

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Explain how a campaign button is "governmental representation".
    It's a campaign contribution and the millionaire's voice is much more likely to be heard than the 10 of yours.

    If I visit my Congressman, or call his office, to express my opinion, that is lobbying. If I donate money to a group, who in turn sends a representative to talk to my Congressman, to express the group's opinion, that's lobbying.

    How is any of that bribing?
    Because a politician is going to work for whomever makes him the most money. Politician A isn't going to say "well, Coca-Cola is responsible for half of my money, but I'm going to vote to make Pepsi the official soda". They are going to work for who gives them the money. At this point, there's little realistic difference between lobbying and bribing and you know it.

    are you stating that non-official capacity campaigning by anyone is allowed?
    I'm stating that time and voice is, essentially, equal amongst everyone. Money is not. If I want to go campaign for my local Republican official, I can work as many hours as I want to do so. I can stand on the street corner and talk to anyone I want to. What I can't do, however, is donate a couple million dollars to his cause.

    I understand what you are arguing. Your view is all politicians are corrupt, and any avenue to restrict their acceptance of cash is high value. In each example we've talked about, you eventually return to money = bribes = do what I say. Not sure why you don't just address corrupt politicians.
    Because it's the system which is corrupted. And sure, there are things we can do to mitigate those influences, but at the end of the day, most politicians care most about winning re-election. And you can only win re-election if you have the financial means to compete.
    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    You are attempting to ban speech.
    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    , except that if money is speech, then equal speech does require equal money.

    I don't know if you went to a public school where they didn't cover this, or not, but in mathematics this is known as: "If A=B, and B=C, then A=C".
    I read just these two lines and it's obvious you have no desire to post honestly about my position. I don't understand why you feel the need to post dishonestly, but I grow tired of dealing with this nonsense.

    If you wish to discuss my position, not some lie you've concocted to be my position, let me know. Until then, I'll just assume you enjoy bending over backwards to sell our government to the wealthy elite.

  4. #44
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    Re: Ted Cruz renews call for unlimited campaign contributions

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    I read just these two lines and it's obvious you have no desire to post honestly about my position. I don't understand why you feel the need to post dishonestly, but I grow tired of dealing with this nonsense.

    If you wish to discuss my position, not some lie you've concocted to be my position, let me know. Until then, I'll just assume you enjoy bending over backwards to sell our government to the wealthy elite.
    I accept your implicit recognition of defeat, and your acquiescence to the fact that you have proposed mutually contradicting standards. Enjoy attempting to ban speech, I will simply enjoy watching you fail.

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    Re: Ted Cruz renews call for unlimited campaign contributions

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    "Hello Forest, can't see you, I'm looking at this tree..."

    That's most of the discussion on this thread. The problem, in the end isn't the money spent in political campaign donations. It's not which side get's more from which cause both have their cash cows. Dem's rely more on big single donations and the GOP get's theirs through massed smaller contributions through various groups. The problem is the people voting. Seriously. And no amount of complaining about the "Money in politics" is going to fix that. As long as we keep allowing power to congeal in DC, the worse the situation is going to get. That's why the nation was set up as a Representative Republic, to dilute the influence of wealth and keep the political class as it were, as accountable to the local level as possible.

    The only real solution would be to limit campaign spending, not donations. But that again hits the wall of what you restrict outside groups to doing. And that's the rub. If only the campaign's can spend say, 5 million on senate campaign for example... how do you constitutionally justify telling a group of people not part of the campaign they cannot use speech to support the candidate? You cannot and it would immoral to try.

    The people, need to be wiser voters, but that's not gonna happen with out current level of bribed stupidity and terribly divided country.
    Boom.

    If you want to reduce the power of money, reduce the money that can be gained from power.

  6. #46
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    Re: Ted Cruz renews call for unlimited campaign contributions

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I accept your implicit recognition of defeat
    When you can't address what I say honestly, it's obvious you are the one who is defeated. If you'd like a second chance, I'm more than happy to discuss it with you like I still am with others. But until you can quit posting lies about what I am saying and have said all along, there's no point in wasting time with someone who thinks poor people shouldn't get to participate in government.

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    Re: Ted Cruz renews call for unlimited campaign contributions

    I'm a fan of allowing unlimited contribution from private citizens and private associations, including publicly held corporations and mega corporations....unions too.
    I loathe the idea of restricting the rights of Americans when it comes to political speech/political contributions.

    but i'm also a big fan of fixing the problem of "too much money and corruption in politics"...which is why I only advocate that we provide limits on the politicians and candidates themselves.

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    Re: Ted Cruz renews call for unlimited campaign contributions

    I agree with this.

    What is the point in trying to limit donations...corporations/the rich ALWAYS find a a way around them.

    The only stipulation I would have is that every dollar a candidate takes in must be publicly declared from whom and how much it was. Other then that - no limit.

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    Re: Ted Cruz renews call for unlimited campaign contributions

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    When you can't address what I say honestly, it's obvious you are the one who is defeated. If you'd like a second chance, I'm more than happy to discuss it with you like I still am with others. But until you can quit posting lies about what I am saying and have said all along, there's no point in wasting time with someone who thinks poor people shouldn't get to participate in government.
    I only quoted you to demonstrate that what you were saying was foolish, ill-advised, a proven failure, and self-contradictory.


    Which is part of why, instead of addressing the points I brought up, you block-quoted some of them and simply responded with a "I'm taking my ball and going home!" response.

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    Re: Ted Cruz renews call for unlimited campaign contributions

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    I agree with this.

    What is the point in trying to limit donations...corporations/the rich ALWAYS find a a way around them.

    The only stipulation I would have is that every dollar a candidate takes in must be publicly declared from whom and how much it was. Other then that - no limit.
    meh, i'm no a fan of mandated disclosure either.... some folks would like to remain anonymous to prevent retribution and i don't think anyone should be forced to identify themselves if hey wish to remain anonymous.

    there might be other ways to provide insulation between donor and candidate, though.

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