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Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother[W:52]

Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

many of them are suicides. what sort of punishment is going to deter a suicide?

And many of them aren't. Why is making suicide more difficult to commit a bad thing ?

tell us why are you so afraid of Americans owning guns?

I'm not. I'm pointing out the consequences for your society
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

NO. It matters and it matters completely. When a firearm is used to kill - it being used exactly for the purpose it was created in the first place. And the maker knows that and was aware of it and makes the product just the same.

So please spare me the excuses and the really atrocious comparison to people driving cars. Cars were invented to transport people. They were NOT invented as weapons of death.

please go sue a car maker because a drunk guy plowed into a crowd or some maniac ran a bunch of people over.
after all the maker of the item is responsible for what people do with their products.

you are wrong you just don't realize how faulty your logic is.

it doesn't why cars were invented companies are responsible for what people do with their products remember that is your logic or at least core belief of the logic you are using.

guns were invented for personal protection that was the core reason they were invented and many early guns couldn't shoot more than a few feet with any accuracy.

again we are talking about your core logical belief here.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

You didn't answer my question. Auto deaths are almost entirely accidental (and hence unavoidable) and are something the US shares with other developed countries unlike its horrendous firearm stats. There is a big difference between accident and intent here

yet they 100% more death caused by car wrecks and drunk drivers than gun shootings.

guns have no intentions they are inanimate objects.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Yes indeed. The USSR had won that for us long before our military aid to her had made much impact and long before D day.

The USSR staved off defeat totally on their own merits.

Had there not been a D-day, or Lend Lease, however, the USSR would have been at great risk of stalemating with the Germans on the Eastern Front. A key factor would have been German policies towards the peoples of occupied Belarus, Ukraine and Russia and how willing the locals would have been to either fight the Soviets, or at least not actively oppose the German occupation.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

And many of them aren't. Why is making suicide more difficult to commit a bad thing ?



I'm not. I'm pointing out the consequences for your society

we understand the consequences of freedom. 99% of all gun owners use them responsibly and for proper purposes. the benefits far outweigh the costs and most of the costs would remain even if the wet dreams of gun fearers came true
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

please go sue a car maker because a drunk guy plowed into a crowd or some maniac ran a bunch of people over.

How many people get murdered by car every year ? There is a big difference between accidental and intentional killing. Most firearms deaths are intentional and hence avoidable (be they suicide or murder) most auto fatalities are not. The US auto fatalities are comparable with most other developed nations its firearms fatalities are not. The scale of those are unique to the US
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

we understand the consequences of freedom. 99% of all gun owners use them responsibly and for proper purposes. the benefits far outweigh the costs and most of the costs would remain even if the wet dreams of gun fearers came true

Comparative international stats do not bear that out.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

yet they 100% more death caused by car wrecks and drunk drivers than gun shootings.

guns have no intentions they are inanimate objects.

All weapons are inanimate objects. Its the inherent lethality of them when combined with people thats the problem.
 
And many of them aren't. Why is making suicide more difficult to commit a bad thing ?



I'm not. I'm pointing out the consequences for your society

The operative word is 'our', not yours.

It is nonya.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

please go sue a car maker because a drunk guy plowed into a crowd or some maniac ran a bunch of people over.
after all the maker of the item is responsible for what people do with their products.

you are wrong you just don't realize how faulty your logic is.

it doesn't why cars were invented companies are responsible for what people do with their products remember that is your logic or at least core belief of the logic you are using.

guns were invented for personal protection that was the core reason they were invented and many early guns couldn't shoot more than a few feet with any accuracy.

again we are talking about your core logical belief here.

For a guy who loves to throw around the term LOGIC - you make the very illogical error of pretending that cars which were invented for the purpose of transportation and firearms which were invented for the purpose of shooting others are the same thing.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

The USSR staved off defeat totally on their own merits.

Agreed

Had there not been a D-day, or Lend Lease, however, the USSR would have been at great risk of stalemating with the Germans on the Eastern Front.

The Red Army had the Germans on the back foot since Stalingrad and were about to destroy a third of the German army during operation Bagration in 1944 so I cannot agree with that contention. At no time during WW2 did US/UK forces ever face more than 20% of Wehrmacht forces. Russia won WW2 long before we played a significant part in it by killing 3.5 million German soldiers for us before we intervened

A key factor would have been German policies towards the peoples of occupied Belarus, Ukraine and Russia and how willing the locals would have been to either fight the Soviets, or at least not actively oppose the German occupation.

It would be a minor factor. It was the numbers that mattered in the East and the Russians had more
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

It was the numbers that mattered in the East and the Russians had more

One can have all the numbers in the world, but if they are not being fed, they are not going to do any good. Lend Lease provided the Soviets with:

26 boxes of pineapples, 71 pounds of olives, 595 boxes of limes

and....


500 million pounds of pork, 70 million pounds of bacon, 583 million pounds of sausage, 492 million pounds of beans etc. etc etc

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/pearl/www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6315/lend.html
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

One can have all the numbers in the world, but if they are not being fed, they are not going to do any good. Lend Lease provided the Soviets with:

26 boxes of pineapples, 71 pounds of olives, 595 boxes of limes

and....


500 million pounds of pork, 70 million pounds of bacon, 583 million pounds of sausage etc. etc etc

The great bulk of lend lease did not kick in until after Stalingrad and Kursk had been fought and won in July 43. By that time the Germans had lost the initiative forever on the Eastern front and were in continuous retreat for the 18 months before D day. The allied landings may have accelerated Germanys end but they certainly did not precipitate it. Russia did the bleeding but Hollywood revisionism grabbed all the glory for the US in the Cold War that followed. In the reckoning some 92% of all German military casualties happened on the Eastern front and it was this Soviet wrecking of the Wehrmacht that was by far the most important component in the winning of the conflict
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

For a guy who loves to throw around the term LOGIC - you make the very illogical error of pretending that cars which were invented for the purpose of transportation and firearms which were invented for the purpose of shooting others are the same thing.

have you gun banners ever figured out how lame that argument is
cars are not intended as weapons yet cars are used to kill far more people each year than firearms which are-in many cases-are intended as weapons.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

The great bulk of lend lease did not kick in until after Stalingrad and Kursk had been fought and won in July 43. By that time the Germans had lost the initiative forever on the Eastern front and were in continuous retreat for the 18 months before D day. The allied landings may have accelerated Germanys end but they certainly did not precipitate it. Russia did the bleeding but Hollywood revisionism grabbed all the glory for the US in the Cold War that followed. In the reckoning some 92% of all German military casualties happened on the Eastern front and it was this Soviet wrecking of the Wehrmacht that was by far the most important component in the winning of the conflict

I agree with most of your post. At the end of the day, however, Lend Lease and D-day allowed the USSR to avoid a stalemate. Even after Stalingrad, the Germans remained very lethal on a broad unit by unit average. Soviet soldiers drove to their victories on 50,000 2 /12 ton trucks while eating about 2 billion pounds of US provided food.

My guess is that with out lend lease and D-day, the entire eastern front would have stalemated after Kursk (Kursk was far more of a stalemate than a German defeat).
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

have you gun banners ever figured out how lame that argument is

I would be happy to check with that infamous "gun banner" Ronald Reagan to get the answer but I read that he is deceased.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

I agree with most of your post. At the end of the day, however, Lend Lease and D-day allowed the USSR to avoid a stalemate.

Given the Red Army had been advancing almost continuously since Feb 43 and given that by 1944 it outnumbered the Wehrmacht by 3 - 4 to one in most categories and especially in armour, why do you believe there would be a stalemate ? In my view had the allies not invaded Europe from the West then the ultimate defeat of Germany by the USSR would have only been delayed by at most 7- 9 months

Even after Stalingrad, the Germans remained very lethal on a broad unit by unit average. Soviet soldiers drove to their victories on 50,000 2 /12 ton trucks while eating about 2 billion pounds of US provided food.

These were hardly critical factors given Russia had managed to both feed and move its troops fairly well before they kicked in. They certainly helped but they were hardly crucial to the final victory

My guess is that with out lend lease and D-day, the entire eastern front would have stalemated after Kursk (Kursk was far more of a stalemate than a German defeat).

Your opinion is not based on fact. The Germans couldn't stop the Russians at Kursk in 43 despite throwing almost their entire strength against them. What makes you think a weaker Wehrmacht could therefore stop and even stronger Red Army a year later ?
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

I would be happy to check with that infamous "gun banner" Ronald Reagan to get the answer but I read that he is deceased.

do you think such evasive posts matter? Ronald Reagan has no relevance to this argument. and under the rules of debate you constantly talk about, its diversion
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

we understand the consequences of freedom. 99% of all gun owners use them responsibly and for proper purposes. the benefits far outweigh the costs and most of the costs would remain even if the wet dreams of gun fearers came true

And if course we all know that if guns were banned, nobody would commit suicide anymore. And nobody would murder anyone again. 30,000 families wouldn't lose a loved one. And I'll wake up in bed tomorrow morning with Brad Pitt lying where my husband usually is.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

do you think such evasive posts matter? Ronald Reagan has no relevance to this argument. and under the rules of debate you constantly talk about, its diversion

Oh I think it is very very important each and every time you bring up the silly charge of GUN BANNER to bring up Ronald Reagan in reply. Yes - that is highly relevant and is a very appropriate part of debate as it is very germane to the issue of the very charge you levy and what it is suppose to indicate about ones support for SecondAmendment rights.

Reagan was a friend of the NRA and strong supporter of the Second Amendment. The fact that your silly charge of GUN BANNER applies to him for his actions as Governor and President show just how silly such labels are and that they prove nothing about ones support for the Second Amendment.

YES - I think that is extremely relevant.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

The truth is always relevant.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

The truth is always relevant.

not at all, something can be truthful but irrelevant to the conversation. Ronald Reagan is irrelevant to this conversation
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

not at all, something can be truthful but irrelevant to the conversation. Ronald Reagan is irrelevant to this conversation

Any time you throw out the silly charge of GUN BANNER in a discussion about the Second Amendment, the name and record of Ronald Reagan is extremely relevant and will be brought up to show just how silly the label is since Reagan was a strong fried and supporter of the Second Amendment.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Any time you throw out the silly charge of GUN BANNER in a discussion about the Second Amendment, the name and record of Ronald Reagan is extremely relevant and will be brought up to show just how silly the label is since Reagan was a strong fried and supporter of the Second Amendment.

if you believe the government should or can ban guns you are a gun banner. Reagan has nothing to do with this discussion

you believe the victims should be able to sue gun makers because guns are designed-in your words-to kill even though not to kill people in violation of the law. I noted cars that are NOT intended to Kill, kill FAR MORE PEOPLE despite not being designed to do that and you failed to address that point but instead mentioned Reagan


why the evasion?
 
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