• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother[W:52]

Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Excon said:
If there was a law requiring such you may have a point.

Otherwise no.
No such responsibility exists.


A gun is a tool.
Just as a pencil is.
So if he had gotten a hold of her pencil and stabbed people in the neck and they died, should she be sued because she didn't better secure her pencil?
A hammer? A screw driver?
A butcher knife?

The concept is abhorrent.
Click to expand...

More people are murdered with hammers than with rifles.

As it happens, I own several hammers. None of them are stored in any more secure a manner than to be in my apartment, the door to which is kept locked when neither my wife or I are home, or when we are both in bed. Anyone who broke into my apartment, and searched for a hammer, would probably find one.

If someone steals one of my hammers, and uses it to commit a murder, should I be held liable?
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

rhinefire said:
Beats me how someone could lose a small child to an act of madness then turn around and take legal action. Maybe grief is surpassed by greed. How much MONEY does it take to ease the life long sorrow?
Click to expand...

No amount of money will bring back your child. But bereaved parents trying to make sense of the utterly incomprehensible want that child's death to have meaning, for something to good to come of it. And bottom feeders will exploit that grief.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Bob Blaylock said:
If someone steals one of my hammers, and uses it to commit a murder, should I be held liable?
Click to expand...
I am sure you know my answer.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

SMTA said:
You seem to have a reading comprehension problem.

No strangers, ever, in my house.

Anyone who believes that the two require different levels of care is a moron.

Anyone who treats a gun, or any tool, without due respect is a moron.

There is no issue with civil suits in this equation.
Click to expand...


I have no reading comprehension problem.

It's a HYPOTHETICAL whose goal is to determine whether someone really treats guns with same level of care as they do a pencil. The point of this hypothetical is that if you treat guns with more respect and care than you do pencils the entire argument that a gun is a tool like a pencil goes out the window and with it the entire idea that you're as liable for misuse of a gun as you would be for misuse of a pencil.

Does that clear it up for you?
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Excon said:
Please provide the law that says that.
And I obviously knew what you were indicating as I provided you the "but for" argument.

And no, her estate is being held responsible for his wrongful actions. It is wrong.
Click to expand...


There is no law. There is the well established concept of negligence in tort law that would apply here.


Her estate is liable for her actions insofar as they were negligent and contributed to what happened. If she wasn't negligent her estate should not be liable for his actions.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Bob Blaylock said:
More people are murdered with hammers than with rifles.

As it happens, I own several hammers. None of them are stored in any more secure a manner than to be in my apartment, the door to which is kept locked when neither my wife or I are home, or when we are both in bed. Anyone who broke into my apartment, and searched for a hammer, would probably find one.

If someone steals one of my hammers, and uses it to commit a murder, should I be held liable?
Click to expand...

No but a reasonable person may well take more steps to secure a firearm and therein lies the difference.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Gaius46 said:
There is no law. There is the well established concept of negligence in tort law that would apply here.
Click to expand...
And that is the problem.
There is no actual criminal law agaisnt such.
Such allows others to be blamed for some one else's actions when they should not be.
Again.
[sarcasm]Hell her estate should be sued for bringing him into the world in the first place. But not for that, this would never had happened.[/sarcasm]


Gaius46 said:
Her estate is liable for her actions insofar as they were negligent and contributed to what happened. If she wasn't negligent her estate should not be liable for his actions.
Click to expand...
Having guns in your house, whether out in the open or locked away is not negligence.
Your opinion is part of the problem.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Dragonfly said:
I can't understand in the least what these families have gone through.

That being said, I also see no reasonable theory as to what suing Mrs. Lanza's estate will accomplish.

Other than to make the lawyers richer.

I don't understand this course of action at all.
Click to expand...
Money makes everything better.

I guess. I can't think of anything else. It's not like she's going to learn a lesson here.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Gaius46 said:
No one said she's responsible for his actions. She is responsible for hers. She is responsible to exercise reasonable care with regard to the security of her firearms.

If she knew her kid was violent or had mental problems there is a legitimate case to be made that she should've secured her firearms in a way that did not give him access, assuming she didn't. If she didn't then maybe she's liable for her actions, maybe she isn't. It is a reasonable question to ask.
Click to expand...

So he kills her, pries open her safe. And its all her fault.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Excon said:
And that is the problem.
There is no actual criminal law agaisnt such.
Such allows others to be blamed for some one else's actions when they should not be.
Again.
[sarcasm]Hell her estate should be sued for bringing him into the world in the first place. But not for that, this would never had happened.[/sarcasm]


Having guns in your house, whether out in the open or locked away is not negligence.
Your opinion is part of the problem.
Click to expand...


That's the way the system works. Can it be abused? Certainly.

I never said having guns in your house was negligent. Having guns in your house, unsecured, when you live with a violence prone person with mental illness may well be negligent.

As a side note I can't believe anyone would really treat a firearm with the same casualness they'd treat a hammer. Anyone who actually does shouldn't have a weapon.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

CRUE CAB said:
So he kills her, pries open her safe. And its all her fault.
Click to expand...


If that's the case no it isn't. But if I remember he killed her with her own gun and it was readily available.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

radcen said:
Money makes everything better.

I guess. I can't think of anything else. It's not like she's going to learn a lesson here.
Click to expand...

Money won't bring back your dead child. The hope that someone else's child won't end up dead may, however, be a motivation.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

nota bene said:
Money won't bring back your dead child. The hope that someone else's child won't end up dead may, however, be a motivation.
Click to expand...
But she's dead and we already know we live in a litigious society, so I'm still failing to see any lesson conveyed here that isn't already known.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Gaius46 said:
As a side note I can't believe anyone would really treat a firearm with the same casualness they'd treat a hammer. Anyone who actually does shouldn't have a weapon.
Click to expand...
If one is not committing a crime, how they treat their firearm in the confines of their home is really none of your business.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Excon said:
If one is not committing a crime, how they treat their firearm in the confines of their home is really none of your business.
Click to expand...

You're right as far as it goes - that becomes debatable if some fool is completely careless with his firearm and it get's stolen and some innocent gets killed.

That aside anyone who treats a firearm like a hammer is an idiot.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Gaius46 said:
If that's the case no it isn't. But if I remember he killed her with her own gun and it was readily available.
Click to expand...

Oh, so murder is OK to sue on. Even if the person you wish to sue has been murdered. Along with your child.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

SMTA said:
If you are so passionate, send them some of YOUR money.
Click to expand...

if they win, hopefully the money will go to the gun maker and gun dealers who were sued in violation of the law and Rule 11
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

radcen said:
But she's dead and we already know we live in a litigious society, so I'm still failing to see any lesson conveyed here that isn't already known.
Click to expand...

I don't know that there is any lesson to be learned. But choosing not to judge those in whose shoes you haven't walked may teach compassion.
 
iguanaman said:
I hope they take all of her estate to warn others of the dangers of unsecured guns. There needs to be consequences if there is to be responsibility. Anything less is a sham.

Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother - CNN.com
Click to expand...

In a sane society such scumbags would be prevented from practicing law.The murderer's mother did not murder those people. If someone steals your car and runs over a bunch of people and destroys the side of a build those people do not get to sue you.It doesn't matter if you had the car lacked in the garage, or on the street next to the curb.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

CRUE CAB said:
Oh, so murder is OK to sue on. Even if the person you wish to sue has been murdered. Along with your child.
Click to expand...

It all depends. Like I said elsewhere the whole idea of suing someone is to compensate someone for a loss they suffered through the negligence of the person being sued. Whether or not you can compensate someone for a dead child is a completely different question.


That the negligent person is dead really doesn't matter. Someone still suffered a loss and should be paid for it. Look at it this way. Say someone T-boned you and you were injured and have hundreds of thousands in medical bills and are out of work for a year. The other driver is killed. You would not sue the other person (their estate anyway) because they're dead? You'd eat all those losses?
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Gaius46 said:
It all depends. Like I said elsewhere the whole idea of suing someone is to compensate someone for a loss they suffered through the negligence of the person being sued. Whether or not you can compensate someone for a dead child is a completely different question.


That the negligent person is dead really doesn't matter. Someone still suffered a loss and should be paid for it. Look at it this way. Say someone T-boned you and you were injured and have hundreds of thousands in medical bills and are out of work for a year. The other driver is killed. You would not sue the other person (their estate anyway) because they're dead? You'd eat all those losses?
Click to expand...

But what about if the other driver was strangled by their assetless passenger and their death is what caused the collision?
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Gaius46 said:
It all depends. Like I said elsewhere the whole idea of suing someone is to compensate someone for a loss they suffered through the negligence of the person being sued. Whether or not you can compensate someone for a dead child is a completely different question.


That the negligent person is dead really doesn't matter. Someone still suffered a loss and should be paid for it. Look at it this way. Say someone T-boned you and you were injured and have hundreds of thousands in medical bills and are out of work for a year. The other driver is killed. You would not sue the other person (their estate anyway) because they're dead? You'd eat all those losses?
Click to expand...
Apples and oranges. The people suing are not the ones dead.
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

haymarket said:
That would depend on if the car was used for the purpose it was manufactured for.
Click to expand...
The guns used in the Sandyhook massacre were manufactured for WHAT purpose?
 
Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

Jack Fabulous said:
The guns used in the Sandyhook massacre were manufactured for WHAT purpose?
Click to expand...

To be fired... to shoot .... to hit targets .... to kill.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom