Page 42 of 65 FirstFirst ... 32404142434452 ... LastLast
Results 411 to 420 of 644

Thread: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother[W:52]

  1. #411
    Don't Give a Rat's Ass
    SMTA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    OH
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    21,841

    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I have no idea what you are talking about unless you cannot read a simple three letter word - YES.
    For your edification and enlightenment.

    Dodge (verb):
    to elude or evade by a sudden shift of position or by strategy

    Dodge (noun):
    to move aside or change position suddenly, as to avoid a blow or get behind something.
    to use evasive methods; prevaricate:

    Synonyms:
    To avoid, equivocate, quibble.
    Greatness lies not in being strong, but in the right use of strength - Henry Ward Beecher
    Baby sister, I was born game and I intend to go out that way - Rooster Cogburn

  2. #412
    Sage
    Gaius46's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    New York
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:33 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    8,479

    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    When there is no reasonable way of obtaining an actual answer then no, its not a reasonable question to ask.



    You may not be saying that she shouldn't have had guns in the first place, but several other people have.

    Bold: Basing what is considered "secured" upon individual circumstances is a good way to leave so much up for subjectivity that pretty much any amount of precautions or security taken beforehand could be deemed as "not secured" or "not secured properly". Doing so in a court of law or even in a legislated law would be one hell of a blow to 2nd Amendment Rights. Anti-gunners would have a field day with it and so would trigger happy DA's (no pun intended) looking to make a name for themselves. Not to mention all the ambulance chasing lawyers.
    If it's the case that we can't find out whether she appropriately safeguarded her weapons then we need to give her the benefit of the doubt and assume she did. That's the ethical answer. The legal one of course brings up preponderance of evidence etc, etc but basically gives the same answer in the case where we can't find out whether or not she safeguarded her weapons. However I don't think we can, out of the box, say we can't know so let's not even bother inquiring.

    I understand what you're saying about my individual circumstances argument but the reality is that it is dependent on individual circumstances. When my kids were little I secured my handguns in a different manner than I do now that they're adults and on their way out of the house to create their own lives. What was appropriate when they were kids, locked up a in safe, is not appropriate now that they're responsible adults and I want one firearm available in case someone breaks in. Imposing a one size fits all solution on everyone doesn't work. If you legislate that everyone has to lock up their guns you hamstring people's ability to defend themselves. If you say "there's no such thing as negligence when it comes to firearms safety" you sanction stupidity and let people who deserve to be sued or in jail off the hook. Neither seems right to me. Imperfect as it may be the best course in my opinion is to look at the individual circumstances.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

  3. #413
    Sage


    Thoreau72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:41 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    20,276

    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Of course. The very idea that a gun manufacturer is not somehow aware that the product he makes will be used to fire at other people and some of those people will die is so beyond the pale that it borders on a serious delusion or the worst case of denial ever on record. They accept that as part of the job they perform.
    I'm sure that every gun manufacturer is aware they manufacture lethal weapons, but I fail to see your point. Crossbow manufacturers also know their product is a lethal weapon, and I still fail to see your point.

  4. #414
    Sage
    flogger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Wokingham, England
    Last Seen
    12-04-17 @ 07:21 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    14,276

    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    So if you have a son that grows up and ends up murdering someone with your gun that was locked away in a gun safe and he happened to pickpocket your key from you would you accept responsibility for your son murdering innocents?
    I wouldn't need to because I'd know better than to have guns in my house in the first place much less an AR 15. The human condition can be unpredictable and that unpredictability mixed with easy access to firearms often leads to Sandy Hook style tragedies in the US

    I mean come on, you "obviously didn't do enough to secure your guns". And you obviously "should have known beforehand that your son was a murdering psychopath".
    If the guns had not been in the house in the first place none of that would have mattered

  5. #415
    Don't Give a Rat's Ass
    SMTA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    OH
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    21,841

    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Wow. That was actually easier than I thought it would be. So you believe that gun manufacturers intend for their products to be used in murder. Thank you very much for showing your true colors Haymarket. This is undeniable proof that you are clearly anti-gun. No reasonable person or pro-second amendment person as you have claimed to be would admit that they believed that gun manufacturers intended their products to be used for murder. By stating such you believe them to be committing crimes (accessory to murder at the very least) simply for making guns. Which any sane person that is against people being an accessory to murder would want stopped.
    So, Haymarket's logic means the following:

    If I think about buying a gun for any reason, I am guilty of premeditated murder.

    If a friend and I go together to buy a gun for each of us, it is murder with racketeering, as we were in collusion.

    If I tell my wife and kids that I am going to buy a new gun, at that moment they are guilty as accessories to murder.

    OK, I got it now - thanks for educating me, Kal!!
    Greatness lies not in being strong, but in the right use of strength - Henry Ward Beecher
    Baby sister, I was born game and I intend to go out that way - Rooster Cogburn

  6. #416
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,858
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    I wouldn't need to because I'd know better than to have guns in my house in the first place much less an AR 15. The human condition can be unpredictable and that unpredictability mixed with easy access to firearms often leads to Sandy Hook style tragedies in the US

    If the guns had not been in the house in the first place none of that would have mattered
    We all already know that you wouldn't have a gun in your house. You're anti-gun. And you know that not having a gun in the house isn't reflective of what we are talking about. All that you did was try to evade answering a simple question honestly. Because of this there is only one possible conclusion.

    You don't want to admit that you would not accept responsibility and that it would be wrong for someone to sue you for such.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  7. #417
    Kinky
    tres borrachos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:31 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    39,119

    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by SMTA View Post
    So, Haymarket's logic means the following:

    If I think about buying a gun for any reason, I am guilty of premeditated murder.

    If a friend and I go together to buy a gun for each of us, it is murder with racketeering, as we were in collusion.

    If I tell my wife and kids that I am going to buy a new gun, at that moment they are guilty as accessories to murder.

    OK, I got it now - thanks for educating me, Kal!!
    I hope nobody posted in the Gun Section that they're buying (insert gun name). That's confessing to intending to kill someone. According to Haymarket anyway.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  8. #418
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,858
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by SMTA View Post
    So, Haymarket's logic means the following:

    If I think about buying a gun for any reason, I am guilty of premeditated murder.

    If a friend and I go together to buy a gun for each of us, it is murder with racketeering, as we were in collusion.

    If I tell my wife and kids that I am going to buy a new gun, at that moment they are guilty as accessories to murder.

    OK, I got it now - thanks for educating me, Kal!!
    Well, he thinks that gun manufacturers intend for their products to be used in the commission of a crime. I see no reason that what you say here isn't true also. So yep you've got it right!.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  9. #419
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:41 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,832

    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Wow. That was actually easier than I thought it would be. So you believe that gun manufacturers intend for their products to be used in murder. Thank you very much for showing your true colors Haymarket. This is undeniable proof that you are clearly anti-gun. No reasonable person or pro-second amendment person as you have claimed to be would admit that they believed that gun manufacturers intended their products to be used for murder. By stating such you believe them to be committing crimes (accessory to murder at the very least) simply for making guns. Which any sane person that is against people being an accessory to murder would want stopped.
    No. It does not show that I am anti-gun. It shows that I am so hopelessly pro-gun that I am willing to place everything I know about the history of fireamrs and crime in the trash can and pretend that sort of record does not exist.

    Gun manufacturers are no fools. Gun manufacturers are not idiots. Gun manufacturers do not have their head crammed up their own head corridor pretending that there are no obvious consequences that come with their own product that has a long and storied history that cannot be denied.

    I have no doubt that not a single one would admit that they know their product will be used for murder and crime. They may be merchants of death but they are not stupid.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  10. #420
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:41 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,832

    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by SMTA View Post
    So, Haymarket's logic means the following:

    If I think about buying a gun for any reason, I am guilty of premeditated murder.

    If a friend and I go together to buy a gun for each of us, it is murder with racketeering, as we were in collusion.

    If I tell my wife and kids that I am going to buy a new gun, at that moment they are guilty as accessories to murder.

    OK, I got it now - thanks for educating me, Kal!!
    I never said that and you damn well know it because you FAILED to print any quotes from me saying it. It is simply more blatant dishonesty and fraud.

    It speaks volumes about your argument that you have to resort to such tactics.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

Page 42 of 65 FirstFirst ... 32404142434452 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •