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Thread: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother[W:52]

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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    That is some history you have there. I must say that being here in the States, the vast vast majority of American gun owners are very responsible who take their weapons seriously. They observe the basic rules of safety and security and are some of the more law abiding people in our nation.

    I do not know how one stops the glorification of the gun. Its out there and I suspect it plays a role in the pushing of the gun culture in our nation and not for better.
    Unfortunately it doesn't matter how responsible a gun owner is when they have someone who is totally irresponsible living in the same house. This has happened countless times in the US Just like in the OP. Gun owners will then blame anything they can think of rather than the fact there were legally owned guns in the house in the first place. It doesn't matter whether the individual living in that house that did the killing was the actual owner or not. He knew where they were kept and how to get access to them.

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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    And no one's fighting to get cars out of American hands or further restrict their ownership and use, are they? Or trying to get them to drive less 'useful' cars? Or restrict more places where they can drive them?
    The continued comparison of cars and firearms is employing the fallacy of False Equivalency.
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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    It all depends. Like I said elsewhere the whole idea of suing someone is to compensate someone for a loss they suffered through the negligence of the person being sued. Whether or not you can compensate someone for a dead child is a completely different question.


    That the negligent person is dead really doesn't matter. Someone still suffered a loss and should be paid for it. Look at it this way. Say someone T-boned you and you were injured and have hundreds of thousands in medical bills and are out of work for a year. The other driver is killed. You would not sue the other person (their estate anyway) because they're dead? You'd eat all those losses?
    You're comparing apples and oranges, the owner of the estate being sued is dead and didn't shoot anyone.
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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    None of what you said negates the reality that firearms were made as a weapon to kill. When a person uses a firearm to shoot another person or creature, they are using it for its created purpose.

    That is simply reality no matter how many people shoot at targets.
    Guns made for and sold to US Citizens are not made for murdering people. They are made for hunting, defense, target practice, and competitions. No gun manufacture would nor has ever condoned a gun sold to a US citizen to be used in the use of murdering people. They will all vehemently agree that such use is not the intended use of their products.

    Do you deny this?
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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    You're comparing apples and oranges, the owner of the estate being sued is dead and didn't shoot anyone.
    But she had allowed the person who did do the shooting to stay in her home and it is probable too he may have always known where and how to access the firearms. As the mother there would have been nobody more aware of the latent predisposition of her own son so it could be argued that there is some culpability there

    This sort of thing will keep happening again and again when firearms are kept in the home but nobody wants to hear that stateside. The legalities of the ownership are ultimately of no consequence one way or the other to the victims
    Last edited by flogger; 03-20-15 at 08:34 AM.

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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    But she had allowed the person who did do the shooting to stay in her home and it is probable too he may have always known where and how to access the firearms. As the mother there would have been nobody more aware of the latent predisposition of her own son so it could be argued that there is some culpability there

    This sort of thing will keep happening again and again when firearms are kept in the home but nobody wants to hear that stateside
    You mean she allowed her son to stay in her home? OMFG, imagine what could happen next!
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    But she had allowed the person who did do the shooting to stay in her home and it is probable too he may have always known where and how to access the firearms. As the mother there would have been nobody more aware of the latent predisposition of her own son so it could be argued that there is some culpability there
    So if you have a son that grows up and ends up murdering someone with your gun that was locked away in a gun safe and he happened to pickpocket your key from you would you accept responsibility for your son murdering innocents? I mean come on, you "obviously didn't do enough to secure your guns". And you obviously "should have known beforehand that your son was a murdering psychopath".
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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    You mean she allowed her son to stay in her home? OMFG, imagine what could happen next!
    IKR!? Imagine! A mother letting her own son stay in her home with her! BLASPHEMY I TELL YOU! BLASPHEMY!
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    You're comparing apples and oranges, the owner of the estate being sued is dead and didn't shoot anyone.
    It is not an apples and oranges comparison. The fact that she's dead is completely irrelevant because it's her actions prior to her death that are in question. And her actions may be negligent if she wasn't reasonably careful with safeguarding her weapons.
    Understand I don't know if she was or wasn't. All I'm saying is that it's not a question that you can't dismiss out of hand because she's dead and she wasn't the shooter.
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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Guns made for and sold to US Citizens are not made for murdering people. They are made for hunting, defense, target practice, and competitions. No gun manufacture would nor has ever condoned a gun sold to a US citizen to be used in the use of murdering people. They will all vehemently agree that such use is not the intended use of their products.

    Do you deny this?
    Yes - the main purpose of a firearm is as its use as a weapon. If one cannot admit that simple reality - there is little point in entertaining any other delusion or fantasy about what firearms are there for.

    Yes - you can shoot at targets and hunting and in competition. That does NOT negate its main purpose as a weapon.
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