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Thread: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother[W:52]

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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    please go sue a car maker because a drunk guy plowed into a crowd or some maniac ran a bunch of people over.
    How many people get murdered by car every year ? There is a big difference between accidental and intentional killing. Most firearms deaths are intentional and hence avoidable (be they suicide or murder) most auto fatalities are not. The US auto fatalities are comparable with most other developed nations its firearms fatalities are not. The scale of those are unique to the US

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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    we understand the consequences of freedom. 99% of all gun owners use them responsibly and for proper purposes. the benefits far outweigh the costs and most of the costs would remain even if the wet dreams of gun fearers came true
    Comparative international stats do not bear that out.

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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    yet they 100% more death caused by car wrecks and drunk drivers than gun shootings.

    guns have no intentions they are inanimate objects.
    All weapons are inanimate objects. Its the inherent lethality of them when combined with people thats the problem.

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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother[W:52]

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    And many of them aren't. Why is making suicide more difficult to commit a bad thing ?



    I'm not. I'm pointing out the consequences for your society
    The operative word is 'our', not yours.

    It is nonya.

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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    please go sue a car maker because a drunk guy plowed into a crowd or some maniac ran a bunch of people over.
    after all the maker of the item is responsible for what people do with their products.

    you are wrong you just don't realize how faulty your logic is.

    it doesn't why cars were invented companies are responsible for what people do with their products remember that is your logic or at least core belief of the logic you are using.

    guns were invented for personal protection that was the core reason they were invented and many early guns couldn't shoot more than a few feet with any accuracy.

    again we are talking about your core logical belief here.
    For a guy who loves to throw around the term LOGIC - you make the very illogical error of pretending that cars which were invented for the purpose of transportation and firearms which were invented for the purpose of shooting others are the same thing.
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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    The USSR staved off defeat totally on their own merits.
    Agreed

    Had there not been a D-day, or Lend Lease, however, the USSR would have been at great risk of stalemating with the Germans on the Eastern Front.
    The Red Army had the Germans on the back foot since Stalingrad and were about to destroy a third of the German army during operation Bagration in 1944 so I cannot agree with that contention. At no time during WW2 did US/UK forces ever face more than 20% of Wehrmacht forces. Russia won WW2 long before we played a significant part in it by killing 3.5 million German soldiers for us before we intervened

    A key factor would have been German policies towards the peoples of occupied Belarus, Ukraine and Russia and how willing the locals would have been to either fight the Soviets, or at least not actively oppose the German occupation.
    It would be a minor factor. It was the numbers that mattered in the East and the Russians had more

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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    It was the numbers that mattered in the East and the Russians had more
    One can have all the numbers in the world, but if they are not being fed, they are not going to do any good. Lend Lease provided the Soviets with:

    26 boxes of pineapples, 71 pounds of olives, 595 boxes of limes

    and....


    500 million pounds of pork, 70 million pounds of bacon, 583 million pounds of sausage, 492 million pounds of beans etc. etc etc

    http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/pearl/www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6315/lend.html

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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    One can have all the numbers in the world, but if they are not being fed, they are not going to do any good. Lend Lease provided the Soviets with:

    26 boxes of pineapples, 71 pounds of olives, 595 boxes of limes

    and....


    500 million pounds of pork, 70 million pounds of bacon, 583 million pounds of sausage etc. etc etc
    The great bulk of lend lease did not kick in until after Stalingrad and Kursk had been fought and won in July 43. By that time the Germans had lost the initiative forever on the Eastern front and were in continuous retreat for the 18 months before D day. The allied landings may have accelerated Germanys end but they certainly did not precipitate it. Russia did the bleeding but Hollywood revisionism grabbed all the glory for the US in the Cold War that followed. In the reckoning some 92% of all German military casualties happened on the Eastern front and it was this Soviet wrecking of the Wehrmacht that was by far the most important component in the winning of the conflict

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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    For a guy who loves to throw around the term LOGIC - you make the very illogical error of pretending that cars which were invented for the purpose of transportation and firearms which were invented for the purpose of shooting others are the same thing.
    have you gun banners ever figured out how lame that argument is
    cars are not intended as weapons yet cars are used to kill far more people each year than firearms which are-in many cases-are intended as weapons.



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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    The great bulk of lend lease did not kick in until after Stalingrad and Kursk had been fought and won in July 43. By that time the Germans had lost the initiative forever on the Eastern front and were in continuous retreat for the 18 months before D day. The allied landings may have accelerated Germanys end but they certainly did not precipitate it. Russia did the bleeding but Hollywood revisionism grabbed all the glory for the US in the Cold War that followed. In the reckoning some 92% of all German military casualties happened on the Eastern front and it was this Soviet wrecking of the Wehrmacht that was by far the most important component in the winning of the conflict
    I agree with most of your post. At the end of the day, however, Lend Lease and D-day allowed the USSR to avoid a stalemate. Even after Stalingrad, the Germans remained very lethal on a broad unit by unit average. Soviet soldiers drove to their victories on 50,000 2 /12 ton trucks while eating about 2 billion pounds of US provided food.

    My guess is that with out lend lease and D-day, the entire eastern front would have stalemated after Kursk (Kursk was far more of a stalemate than a German defeat).

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