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Thread: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother[W:52]

  1. #261
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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    not accidentally with their own guns though, which is part of what you're claiming
    No more often than not its by other family members

    Nope try again, many places in the world have higher rates of suicide then the United States.
    Your figures would be considerably lower though without guns. They make suicide easier to commit

    no you insisted owning a firearm is a major risk factor for homicide, that's a completely separate statement then the method of committing a murder, you're now attempting to muddy the waters
    Nonsense. Nearly three quarters of your homicides are firearms related

    if you lived where I do your chances would be identical, crime in the US is clustered and violent crime overwhelmingly falls on those already involved in criminal activity. If you're walking down the streets of most american cities minding your own business you are in no greater risk here. You are applying raw numbers without controls.
    We have crime too but are still 5 times less likely to be murdered than you as are our criminals. Where do you think your criminals got their guns in the first place ?

    Again wrong, since you like to play the uncontrolled raw number game, the BJS statistic for defensive gun uses is over half a million every year, and accidental gun deaths is maybe 400, it's not high. So that logic makes owning a gun the sensible thing to do.
    You've already been shown the facts so theres little more I can add

    1) your facts are without context and based on assumptions that do not apply to the reality of the situation
    And you'll go through hoops to evade such facts in defence of the indefensible

    2) your last sentence is one of the most pathetic strawmen I have ever seen
    The truth hurts I know but that doesn't stop it being the truth nonetheless. What kind of sick society would react to the Sandy Hook massacre in this fashion

    Walmart Out Of Guns As Americans Race For Arms After Newtown

    Demand for guns is soaring in the U.S. after the Sandy Hook Elementary shooting, pumping up the price of firearms and ammunition as sellers race to replenish their stock.

    Walmart has reportedly sold out of semi-automatic rifles in five states, including Pennsylvania, Kansas and Alabama, according to a Wednesday report from Bloomberg.


    Nuff said

  2. #262
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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    people who want to strip Citizens of rights are scumbags. do you support such scumbags?
    Two points -
    1- I do not support denying people their Constitutional rights.
    2- the use of such vitriolic terms such as ASSHOLES, SCUMBAGS, BLOOMTARDS and others to characterize a particular holder of a position is not advancing debate - it should be avoided and the high road taken instead.
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  3. #263
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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    so does a gun.
    a gun is used for target shooting or skeet shooting.

    can be used for many purposes other than killing.

    again those products don't have to be made for the purpose of killing. this is just a poor argument.
    It is the truth that firearms were made as weapons to fire and kill with. When one uses it for that purpose they are using it for the invented purpose.
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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    accidently yes, in total deaths no that is not correct
    does it matter now really. a death is a death whether you do it to yourself or someone else does it.

    yet we don't sue these companies when people do stupid things with their products.
    you can try but it is thrown out of court as not the companies fault.

    it is a semantics game. and a poor one at that.

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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    It is the truth that firearms were made as weapons to fire and kill with. When one uses it for that purpose they are using it for the invented purpose.
    again has nothing to do with the fact fire arm companies are not responsible for what other people do.
    just as car makers are not responsible for the drunk guy that goes and kills a bunch of people.

    you can repeat the same failed argument all you want to it will still be the same failed argument.

    In order for the gun company to be liable there it has to have some culpability in the matter. which it doesn't. it didn't even sell the gun to the kid a gun store sold the gun to his mother. at worst they could try and go after the gun store owner, but then he sold it in a legal matter according to law.

    once it is out of his store what is done with the gun is on the owner. she had the gun locked up in a safe. the son must have found the key and opened it.
    so even the mother was responsible for the weapon that she had as she kept it locked up.

  6. #266
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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    again has nothing to do with the fact fire arm companies are not responsible for what other people do.
    just as car makers are not responsible for the drunk guy that goes and kills a bunch of people.

    you can repeat the same failed argument all you want to it will still be the same failed argument.
    It is an extremely solid argument as when a person uses a firearm as a weapon, that is exactly what the gun was invented for in the first place.
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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    It is an extremely solid argument as when a person uses a firearm as a weapon, that is exactly what the gun was invented for in the first place.
    no it isn't because a firearm can be used for multiple things.
    IE target practice and skeet shooting. both very popular and huge events.

    actually the gun was invented for self defense purposes.

    no it isn't a solid argument at all. as it has a ton of holes. you still have yet to explain to me how a gun maker is responsible for someone else's actions while a car maker is not responsible for the drunk driver that kills someone in their car.

    you say it is intent but both the car and gun are inanimate objects they have no intent. it is the people that use those items that has the intent not the object itself.

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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    no it isn't because a firearm can be used for multiple things.
    IE target practice and skeet shooting. both very popular and huge events.

    actually the gun was invented for self defense purposes.

    no it isn't a solid argument at all. as it has a ton of holes. you still have yet to explain to me how a gun maker is responsible for someone else's actions while a car maker is not responsible for the drunk driver that kills someone in their car.

    you say it is intent but both the car and gun are inanimate objects they have no intent. it is the people that use those items that has the intent not the object itself.
    Get with the program please.Even one of your most vocal gun defenders has already admitted here that guns were invented as weapons.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Get with the program please.Even one of your most vocal gun defenders has already admitted here that guns were invented as weapons.
    please show me where I said that wasn't the case? I said they are used for skeet shooting and target practice as well.

    I am sorry that you have to make up stuff but you still have yet to prove gun makers are responsible for what someone else does with their gun.
    just like car makers are not responsible for what drunk people do in their cars.

    according to you they should be.

  10. #270
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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    please show me where I said that wasn't the case? I said they are used for skeet shooting and target practice as well.

    I am sorry that you have to make up stuff but you still have yet to prove gun makers are responsible for what someone else does with their gun.
    just like car makers are not responsible for what drunk people do in their cars.

    according to you they should be.
    Its not JUST LIKE anything to do with cars so knock it off already. The gun was invented as a weapon of death. The car was invented as a mode of transportation. Stop already with the false comparisons.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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