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Thread: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother[W:52]

  1. #251
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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What is it you are trying to master?

    Do you think such intentional tactics using insulting over the top vitriol furthers discussion or kill it and drive people away from threads like this?
    people who want to strip Citizens of rights are scumbags. do you support such scumbags?



  2. #252
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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    None of those products are made for the purpose of killing. Even a knife has many other uses other than a weapon.
    so does a gun.
    a gun is used for target shooting or skeet shooting.

    can be used for many purposes other than killing.

    again those products don't have to be made for the purpose of killing. this is just a poor argument.

    the fact is you need to go sue those industries since people abuse them to go kill tons of people with.
    sue pool makers while you are at it because far more people die in pools than are killed by guns.

    or ladder makers as more people are killed falling off a ladder.

  3. #253
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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    so does a gun.
    a gun is used for target shooting or skeet shooting.

    can be used for many purposes other than killing.

    again those products don't have to be made for the purpose of killing. this is just a poor argument.

    the fact is you need to go sue those industries since people abuse them to go kill tons of people with.
    sue pool makers while you are at it because far more people die in pools than are killed by guns.

    or ladder makers as more people are killed falling off a ladder.
    accidently yes, in total deaths no that is not correct
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    No one cares about your stupid hippy logic
    "Be careful of averages, the average person has one breast and one testicle"
    -Dixy Lee Ray

  4. #254
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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    The stats I've seen show that overall violent crime is much higher in all of Europe than in the US. How those stats are determined I do not know but every source I have seen uses the same(or very similar) statistics.
    Then you need to check out the facts for yourself. These reports tend to use the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports for their US stats. The criteria for defining a “violent crime” use one of four specific offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. Anything else is not recorded as being' violent crime'. As I pointed out before, in the UK 'violent crime' is defined by the British Home Office as all crimes against the person. No wonder it's higher. I know that especially in the gun crime debate gleeful right-wingers pick up on this misleading statistical error as 'proof' to use to oppose gun control, but an error it most certainly is.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

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  5. #255
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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    there, fixed it for you
    Only an American could believe that given you are seven times more likely to be killed by your own gun than by that of a criminal

  6. #256
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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Only an American could believe that given you are seven times more likely to be killed by your own gun than by that of a criminal
    Says who?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    No one cares about your stupid hippy logic
    "Be careful of averages, the average person has one breast and one testicle"
    -Dixy Lee Ray

  7. #257
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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Says who?
    Owning a gun has been linked to higher risks of homicide, suicide, and accidental death by gun.
    For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home.

    http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/9/1/48.full
    Guns in the Home and Risk of a Violent Death in the Home: Findings from a National Study
    Firearms in US homes as a risk factor for unintentional gunshot fatality
    Injuries and deaths due to firearms in ... - PubMed Mobile - NCBI

    The ability to play at being Rambo or Dirty Harry comes at a very great cost to your wider society based on every comparative statistic out there

    List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Owning a gun has been linked to higher risks of homicide, suicide, and accidental death by gun.
    For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home.

    Association between handgun purchase and mortality from firearm injury -- Grassel et al. 9 (1): 48 -- Injury Prevention
    Guns in the Home and Risk of a Violent Death in the Home: Findings from a National Study
    Firearms in US homes as a risk factor for unintentional gunshot fatality
    Injuries and deaths due to firearms in ... - PubMed Mobile - NCBI

    The ability to play at being Rambo or Dirty Harry comes at a very great cost to your wider society based on every comparative statistic out there

    List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Yes I would agree owning a makes one more likely to be inured in a gun accident, much like owning a home with stairs makes one more likely to take a tumble down the stairs, big no brainer.

    Suicide is a personal choice, that doesn't factor into my risks.

    Owning a gun is among the many risk factors for homicide, and the most minor of them. The primary risk factors are drugs, gangs, and criminal activity. I participate in none of those, so I am not 7 times more likely to be killed with my own gun. Your study indicates that you linked, I am at most 3.4 times more likely. Which since unintentional shooting deaths are not even 1000 a year, out of 2.5 million people who die every year of everything, I'm not even worried. Quit smoking three years ago which kills many more people, I am happy with those numbers

    Firearm related death rAte is an inveted number made only to push gun control laws. It factors nothing into it other then gun related deaths, whether they be justified, police shootings, accidents (which when controlled shooting is safer then nearly every other sport) etc. it's a raw number without specific meaning
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 03-18-15 at 06:49 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    No one cares about your stupid hippy logic
    "Be careful of averages, the average person has one breast and one testicle"
    -Dixy Lee Ray

  9. #259
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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Yes I would agree owning a makes one more likely to be inured in a gun accident, much like owning a home with stairs makes one more likely to take a tumble down the stairs, big no brainer.
    If you don't have a gun that risk is taken out of the equation. Rather more people get shot than get killed falling down stairs

    Suicide is a personal choice, that doesn't factor into my risks.
    But it does in the wider society given that firearms make a suicide attempt that much more likely to be successful

    Owning a gun is among the many risk factors for homicide, and the most minor of them.
    Nonsense. 72% of all homicides in the states are committed using a firearm

    The primary risk factors are drugs, gangs, and criminal activity.
    We have those too but we also have a 40 times lesser chance of being shot and a 5 times less chance of being murdered overall despite our criminal activity

    I participate in none of those, so I am not 7 times more likely to be killed with my own gun
    The facts differ. You are in fact putting yourself and your family at greatly increased risk by keeping a gun at home

    Firearm related death rAte is an inveted number made only to push gun control laws. It factors nothing into it other then gun related deaths, whether they be justified, police shootings, accidents (which when controlled shooting is safer then nearly every other sport) etc. it's a raw number without specific meaning
    Dismissal of the facts is easy when the legitimacy of owning guns is threatened. Like I said earlier its uniquely weird US sensibilities that value guns over people

  10. #260
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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    If you don't have a gun that risk is taken out of the equation. Rather more people get shot than get killed falling down stairs
    not accidentally with their own guns though, which is part of what you're claiming



    But it does in the wider society given that firearms make a suicide attempt that much more likely to be successful
    Nope try again, many places in the world have higher rates of suicide then the United States.



    Nonsense. 72% of all homicides in the states are committed using a firearm
    no you insisted owning a firearm is a major risk factor for homicide, that's a completely separate statement then the method of committing a murder, you're now attempting to muddy the waters



    We have those too but we also have a 40 times lesser chance of being shot and a 5 times less chance of being murdered overall despite our criminal activity
    if you lived where I do your chances would be identical, crime in the US is clustered and violent crime overwhelmingly falls on those already involved in criminal activity. If you're walking down the streets of most american cities minding your own business you are in no greater risk here. You are applying raw numbers without controls.



    [quote]The facts differ. You are in fact putting yourself and your family at greatly increased risk by keeping a gun at home[quote]

    Again wrong, since you like to play the uncontrolled raw number game, the BJS statistic for defensive gun uses is over half a million every year, and accidental gun deaths is maybe 400, it's not high. So that logic makes owning a gun the sensible thing to do.



    Dismissal of the facts is easy when the legitimacy of owning guns is threatened. Like I said earlier its uniquely weird US sensibilities that value guns over people
    1) your facts are without context and based on assumptions that do not apply to the reality of the situation
    2) your last sentence is one of the most pathetic strawmen I have ever seen
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    No one cares about your stupid hippy logic
    "Be careful of averages, the average person has one breast and one testicle"
    -Dixy Lee Ray

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