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Thread: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother[W:52]

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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Indeed. How many people use a car to intentionally kill someone ?
    The purpose of a car is NOT to be used as a weapon. The purpose of a firearm IS to be used as a weapon.
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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Actually IT IS the DIFFERENCE. And it is NOT semantics. It is the purpose and function of the item.
    C'man haymarket. You gotta admit, the company isn't responsible for this. Guns aren't the only things made for killing. You also have knives and crossbows made for killing. If you use one to kill should the company be sued? I use to think so. I really did. Then I realized that it really boils down to the gun being simply an accessory. In Japan, guns are pretty much non-existent and yet, there are kids going into their schools an slicing other kids up and committing some really heinous f'n crimes. In Cuba, it's the same damn thing. The general populace has no real access to guns and yet the country has seen waves of people killing each other using everything from machetes to sickles. The reality is that you're not going the right way about impacting the rampart gun violence in this country. What needs to be done is education and less glamorizing of guns. We don't need to ban them, just ensure people realize that they're not items you use when you feel depressed or are going through some stuff. That's what happened in Sandy Hook. You have a man who had serious mental issues and used the gun to take it out on others. Without access to a gun, he would have used a knife, or a car or his mothers underwear. The gun company wasn't at fault here. It didn't place the gun in his hand and tell him to start shooting. He did that all on his own.
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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The purpose of a car is NOT to be used as a weapon. The purpose of a firearm IS to be used as a weapon.
    The difference between an accidental death by car and an intentional (and hence avoidable) one by firearm is one gun advocates desperately try to blur in order to keep their lethal hobby safe from the legislators

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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    C'man haymarket. You gotta admit, the company isn't responsible for this. Guns aren't the only things made for killing. You also have knives and crossbows made for killing. If you use one to kill should the company be sued? I use to think so. I really did. Then I realized that it really boils down to the gun being simply an accessory. In Japan, guns are pretty much non-existent and yet, there are kids going into their schools an slicing other kids up and committing some really heinous f'n crimes. In Cuba, it's the same damn thing. The general populace has no real access to guns and yet the country has seen waves of people killing each other using everything from machetes to sickles. The reality is that you're not going the right way about impacting the rampart gun violence in this country. What needs to be done is education and less glamorizing of guns. We don't need to ban them, just ensure people realize that they're not items you use when you feel depressed or are going through some stuff. That's what happened in Sandy Hook. You have a man who had serious mental issues and used the gun to take it out on others. Without access to a gun, he would have used a knife, or a car or his mothers underwear. The gun company wasn't at fault here. It didn't place the gun in his hand and tell him to start shooting. He did that all on his own.
    The intended purpose of a firearm is to be fired and used as a weapon first and foremost. I sympathize with what you are saying and some of your argument makes sense. I do NOT think the firearm company is ultimately responsible. But perhaps it is time we examine the proliferation of guns in society and ask the question as to the degree of responsibility - even a small degree - certain sectors do indeed have.

    But why is it necessary for legislators to pass special laws giving special protection to firearms manufacturers that other product manufacturers do not get?
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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    The difference between an accidental death by car and an intentional (and hence avoidable) one by firearm is one gun advocates desperately try to blur in order to keep their lethal hobby safe from the legislators
    I am not trying to blur anything. I am being very forward and direct about it.
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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The intended purpose of a firearm is to be fired and used as a weapon first and foremost. I sympathize with what you are saying and some of your argument makes sense. I do NOT think the firearm company is ultimately responsible. But perhaps it is time we examine the proliferation of guns in society and ask the question as to the degree of responsibility - even a small degree - certain sectors do indeed have.

    But why is it necessary for legislators to pass special laws giving special protection to firearms manufacturers that other product manufacturers do not get?
    I think it also has to do with what I call cigarette reasoning... remember those ads in the 1950s and 1960s telling people how safe cigarettes were? I don't. I've only seen them on YouTube but I know they exist. They recommended cigarettes for everyone and even praised how healthy they were. 10 years down the line, a whole bunch of people started suing them for false advertising and a whole bunch of diseases they didn't know they could catch. Result? I haven't seen a single cigarette ad in a single standard publication in over 10 years of working in a business that deals with ads. Smoking in general has also dropped as a result. The general populace has also seen the dangers of smoking.

    How does that relate to the guns? As it stands, gun manufacturers in the US have a lot of restrictions. I've never seen a gun ad on television. I've never even seen one online. I've seen stores ads but they're not even close to being nationwide. Any usage of guns on television is preempted by "Don't Try This At Home". Any movie with gun violence has a little screen between commercial breaks telling people that this movie is not for children. That is what is needed. We need to make the population aware that guns are solutions for your life being in danger. They're not solutions for ending temporary problems.

    I think that's a positive first step towards bringing down gun violence. However, there are also other issues which aren't accounted for when people are in a hurry to just blame gun companies. It's the fact that gun companies operate like any other tool manufacturer out there. They make guns, and then they ship them to stores and police departments. They have no idea which guns will be used for what and by whom. They have no control if 10 years down the line a gun decides to shoot people up. It doesn't matter if they made a gun that once belonged to a legal gun owner, who sold it to a guy and then that guy got it stolen from him and it ended up on someone else's hands. They're simply not liable.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I am not trying to blur anything. I am being very forward and direct about it.
    I didn't say you were, I was merely highlighting the tactics often used in by those who try to defend of the indefensible

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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother[W:52]

    Quote Originally Posted by americanwoman View Post
    He was a legal adult in the state of CT at the age of 20, not a kid and she was not his legal guardian as he was an adult and no guardianship was made.
    He was mentally handicapped and could not take care of himself so she was is guardian whether she petitioned the courts for it or not. There was no way she should have had that weapon where he could get it. That is certainly obvious. We need gun purchasers to sign a document that says guns should not be brought into a home with a mentally unstable occupant and they will be liable if they do.
    Last edited by iguanaman; 03-17-15 at 04:31 PM.

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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother[W:52]

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    He was mentally handicapped and could not take care of himself so she was is guardian whether she petitioned the courts for it or not. There was no way she should have had that weapon where he could get it. That is certainly obvious
    100% agree.

    She begged for him to be institutionalized, it never happened. The mental health care system is as much to blame here.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Sandy Hook families sue estate of shooter's mother[W:52]

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    100% agree.

    She begged for him to be institutionalized, it never happened. The mental health care system is as much to blame here.
    Yes its easier to blame anything other than the easy access to firearms I suppose. As long as the gun rights are safe though thats all that matters. Who cares if a few innocent strangers have to pay the price each time this happens as long as they aren't your loved ones right ?

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