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Thread: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

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    Re: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

    Quote Originally Posted by DiavoTheMiavo View Post
    Oh My. Now I remember why I don't respond to you. The fact you have just argued that military dependents overseas are not eligible to be president indicates an obtuse nature I just cannot deal with. Have a nice day enjoying the fact you are as wrong as wrong can be. At the risk of getting points . . . you are a douche bag.
    Your reply is nonsensical. There is nothing obtuse about it. It is the Constitution.
    If you do not like what is meant by a Constitutional clause, amend the Constitution.

    McCain was granted citizenship by statute because those born in the canal zone were not citizens. Not by birth and not by the fact that their parents were citizens.
    A law had to be created to grant them citizenship, which is not being a natural born citizen. You can not escape that fact.

    So the only one between the two of us that has an obtuse nature in regards to this topic would be you in not recognizing reality.

    Cruz is citizen by statute and not a naturally born US citizen. He is a Canadian. Born on Canadian soil with Canadian citizenship owing Canadian allegiance and has a Canadian birth certificate.
    Last edited by Excon; 03-29-15 at 02:23 AM.
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    Re: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    A child born to a US military member serving overseas should be awarded all rights and benefits that of a child born in one of the states. PERIOD. Not even up for debate for crying out loud.

    "Should be" is not the same as "is".
    If you do not like the Constitution amend it.

    McCain was not born with citizen ship even though his parents were citizens.
    A law had to be created to grant those born in the canal zone citizenship. Which only make him a citizen by statute. That is not being a natural born citizen.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post


    Obama wasn't given flack for being factually born in another country. Obama was given flack because of the false claim that he was born in Kenya. Please don't try and confound the issues. I'll say this, it'll be great going through all of those "Obama is a Kenyan" threads. It'll be better finding the hypocrites who claimed that being born to an American parent in Hawaii didn't make a citizen. I wonder what they'll say now.
    Hell of a post! Well said.










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    Re: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    That isn't what the Constitution says. The Constitution requires one be a Naturally born citizen.
    That phase has a specific meaning requiring birth to a citizen parent, on US soil, and not being born owing allegiance to another country.
    That meaning hasn't changed.

    Unfortunately the Supreme Court has never heard the issue so folks like Obama and possibly Cruz can get away with it.
    Cruz renounced Canadian citizenship, so doesn't 'owe an allegiance' to another country. Of course, nobody owes allegiance to any country at birth, it's a stupid argument.

    anyway, Obama was born on US soil to a US citizen, so how is he not eligible?

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    Re: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

    This whole natural born citizen rule is stupid anyway. I can understand why it was initially used; America was a new country formed out of rebellion. But it's not relevant in the 21st century.

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    Re: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

    Quote Originally Posted by Politicshead View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    That isn't what the Constitution says. The Constitution requires one be a Naturally born citizen.
    That phase has a specific meaning requiring birth to a citizen parent, on US soil, and not being born owing allegiance to another country.
    That meaning hasn't changed.

    Unfortunately the Supreme Court has never heard the issue so folks like Obama and possibly Cruz can get away with it.
    Cruz renounced Canadian citizenship, so doesn't 'owe an allegiance' to another country. Of course, nobody owes allegiance to any country at birth, it's a stupid argument.

    No, saying it is a stupid argument is in fact a failed and stupid argument.

    His later renunciation does not change the status or circumstances of his birth, nor could it.

    You are also showing that you haven't paid attention to the information provided in this thread.


    Quote Originally Posted by Politicshead View Post
    anyway, Obama was born on US soil to a US citizen, so how is he not eligible?
    By owing foreign allegiance.

    Your arguments do not fly as our founders knew what was meant by the term.

    What you obviously missed reading.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    On July 25, 1787, John Jay wrote to George Washington, presiding officer of the Convention:

    Permit me to hint, whether it would not be wise and seasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government, and to declare expressly that the Command in chief of the American army shall not be given to, nor devolve on, any but a natural born Citizen.[15]

    While the Committee on Detail originally proposed that the President must be merely a citizen as well as a resident for 21 years, the Committee of Eleven changed "citizen" to "natural born citizen" without recorded explanation after receiving Jay's letter. The Convention accepted the change without further recorded debate.[16]

    Natural-born-citizen clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    More of what you missed reading continued below.
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    Re: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

    More info from the thread that you missed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Benjamin Franklin shared Jefferson’s admiration for Vattel. In 1775, Franklin wrote in a letter:

    I am much obliged by the kind present you have made us of your edition of Vattel. It came to us in good season, when the circumstances of a rising state make it necessary frequently to consult the law of nations. Accordingly that copy, which I kept, (after depositing one in our own public library here, and sending the other to the College of Massachusetts Bay, as you directed,) has been continually in the hands of the members of our Congress, now sitting, who are much pleased with your notes and preface, and have entertained a high and just esteem for their author.

    Next, consider the irrefutable fact that Vattel’s interpretations of the law of nature were cited more frequently than any other writer’s on international law in cases heard in the courts of the early United States, and the Law of Nations was the primary textbook on the subject in use in American universities.

    For all the foregoing reasons we are right to turn to the Swss-born Vattel’s Law of Nations for our understanding of the definition of “natural born citizen” just as our Founding Fathers did.

    To that end, here are a few relevant selections from Vattel’s Law of Nations regarding the concept of “natural born citizen”:


    § 212: “Natural born citizens are those born in a country to parents who are also citizens of that country. Particularly, if the father of the person is not a citizen then the child is not a citizen either. Children cannot inherit from parents rights not enjoyed by them.”

    § 213: “While those individuals described above may be permitted to remain in the country of their birth, they are not naturally endowed with the rights of citizens.”

    § 214: “A country may allow a person born in a country to foreign parents the status of citizenship, this is called naturalization. That is a function of law, not of birthright.”

    §§ 215, 216 & 217: “Children born overseas to parents who are foreigners in that country do not become natural born citizens of that country, rather they are citizens of the country to which their parents owe allegiance.”
    Argument as provided in reference to Rubio and Jindal not being eligible.


    But you can you can find Vattel's work here for yourself.
    Emmerich de Vattel: The Law of Nations
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I'll say this, it'll be great going through all of those "Obama is a Kenyan" threads. It'll be better finding the hypocrites who claimed that being born to an American parent in Hawaii didn't make a citizen. I wonder what they'll say now.
    The problem I had was Obama obfuscating an actual birth certificate with the abstract he initially released. Even Hillary was a "Birther" on this score, to no avail. He resisted releasing the long-form for a long time until The Donald called him on it.

    Donald Trump: I really don't know where Obama was born
    Нава́льный 2018

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    Re: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    No, saying it is a stupid argument is in fact a failed and stupid argument.

    His later renunciation does not change the status or circumstances of his birth, nor could it.

    You are also showing that you haven't paid attention to the information provided in this thread.


    By owing foreign allegiance.

    Your arguments do not fly as our founders knew what was meant by the term.

    What you obviously missed reading.



    More of what you missed reading continued below.
    Err...you're going to have explain how Obama owes allegiance to a foreign country?? Nobody owes allegiance to country based on birth, especially when they have renounced citizenship as in Cruz's case.

    And yes, the natural born citizen rule is stupid in this day and age. I get why they felt it was needed at the start, to protect US sovereignty, but it serves no purpose now.

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    Re: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

    Quote Originally Posted by Politicshead View Post
    Err...you're going to have explain how Obama owes allegiance to a foreign country?? Nobody owes allegiance to country based on birth, especially when they have renounced citizenship as in Cruz's case.

    A person is born with that allegiance.
    Renouncing it has no affect on the status of their birth.

    The requirement for the Office of President is higher than that of just "citizen" for the lower Offices.


    Quote Originally Posted by Politicshead View Post
    And yes, the natural born citizen rule is stupid in this day and age. I get why they felt it was needed at the start, to protect US sovereignty, but it serves no purpose now.

    What you think serves no purpose is irrelevant.
    Your lean being socialist, makes it even more irrelevant.
    Last edited by Excon; 08-01-15 at 04:04 AM.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle

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