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Thread: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

  1. #201
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    Re: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I highly doubt the SCOTUS would see it that way if it became an issue. Especially if the person was a son or daughter of a military service member born overseas. It simply would not be fair. The simple fact is that part of the Constitution was meant to limit the ability of an adult to come over as a citizen of another country and become our President after only being a citizen for a few years or having been raised as a citizen of another country.
    I agree. It's one thing to pound on the table and say "Founder's Intent!" - but 200+ years later, a lot of things have changed. I'm pretty sure what the founders meant is what you wrote and the SCOTUS would probably interpret it that way.

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    Re: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    It didn't need clarification. The Founders knew what it meant.
    You may not have noticed, but we have changed a lot of things since "the founders". Their views are not sacrosanct.

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    Re: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    As you were told, they were already addressed.
    And you were directed to the posts that would clarify your feigned ignorance of my position.
    ROFL. in the amount of time you've spent typing that we misunderstood you and we should go look at your posts in this very long thread (without telling us which posts) you could have just restated -in summary - the answer to the question.

    McCain - eligible/not eligible based on where he was born
    Cruz - eligible/not eligible based on where he was born
    Obama - eligible/not eligible based on where he was born

    They all had at least one parent who was a born and bred US citizen, so that's not a disqualifier

  4. #204
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    Re: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Great. So where is this question you asked and the answer the person gave?



    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Fair enough. However, I believe our legal system has determined through legal precedent that a "natural-born U.S. citizen" is, in fact, defined as a person who is born in the U.S. or one of its outlying territories regardless of where the individual's parents were born.
    Unfortunately your belief is wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Such was the ruling in this U.S. Appeals Court case, SoS Achesen -vs- Maenza (1953), where a child born in the U.S. to two Italian born parents who retained his U.S. "natural-born" citizenship status based: 1) on the place of his birth (Cleveland, OH) and, 2) the fact that he did not renounce his U.S. citizenship despite being "forced" to serve in the Italian Army. Notice this case is similar to U.S. -vs- Wong Kim Ark.

    In both case, the Courts ruled that, ""All persons born in the allegiance of the United States are natural-born citizens."
    No they did not.
    Neither Court made such a ruling.


    The Court in Wong only ruled he was a citizen.
    Here is the wording of the actual ruling from your link.

    The evident intention, and the necessary effect, of the submission of this case to the decision of the court upon the facts agreed by the parties were to present for determination the single question stated at the beginning of this opinion, namely, whether a child born in the United States, of parent of Chinese descent, who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of the Emperor of China, but have a permanent domicil and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the Emperor of China, becomes at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States. For the reasons above stated, this court is of opinion that the question must be answered in the affirmative.

    Clearly that does not say "natural born citizen", just "citizen".


    The court in Maenza made no such ruling in regards to the type of citizen he was.
    It ruled he didn't loose his citizenship through involuntary servitude in another countries service.
    Here its the wording of the actual ruling from your link.

    Under those circumstances, we are not prepared to hold that the voluntary act of travel to Italy is determinative as a matter of law of the question of voluntariness of appellee's subsequent army service. Rather, the inference to be drawn from the evidence is that appellee did not of his own free will serve in the army of a foreign state. In view of the fact that the Government failed to sustain the burden of proof on either of the two alleged grounds of expatriation, we must conclude that appellee never lost American citizenship.

    Where you get the idea that it somehow ruled he was a natural born citizen is beyond me. Maybe you do not understand the difference between dicta and a ruling.
    Last edited by Excon; 03-16-15 at 02:36 PM.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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  5. #205
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    Re: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I said enough times now that they don't. So just answer the ****ing question. Was McCain qualified or not?
    Yes they do.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle

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    Re: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    You may not have noticed, but we have changed a lot of things since "the founders". Their views are not sacrosanct.


    Again. This hasn't changed nor could it without an amendment.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    ROFL. in the amount of time you've spent typing that we misunderstood you and we should go look at your posts in this very long thread (without telling us which posts) you could have just restated -in summary - the answer to the question.

    McCain - eligible/not eligible based on where he was born
    Cruz - eligible/not eligible based on where he was born
    Obama - eligible/not eligible based on where he was born

    They all had at least one parent who was a born and bred US citizen, so that's not a disqualifier
    I see you don't get it, and take sides as well.
    He wasted his time by not reading what was already provided. His not doing that is the problem.
    Asking me to provide it again is a waste of time. And I am not going to do it.

    But if you want to help him out, be my guest.
    Quote what I said in regards to each of those folks.
    All you will be doing is wasting your time for a person who obviously didn't care to read the thread on their own.
    Or you could save yourself some time and tell him to read the thread.
    Up to you.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle

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    Re: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    I see you don't get it, and take sides as well.
    He wasted his time by not reading what was already provided. His not doing that is the problem.
    Asking me to provide it again is a waste of time. And I am not going to do it.

    But if you want to help him out, be my guest.
    Quote what I said in regards to each of those folks.
    All you will be doing is wasting your time for a person who obviously didn't care to read the thread on their own.
    Or you could save yourself some time and tell him to read the thread.
    Up to you.

    OR - I could just ignore you. I like that option! You are the one wasting time. If you wanted to present your argument, you would restate in a way that people actually understood, rather than just being upset that we didn't understand you in the first place. You obviously don't care if we understand you; so I don't care either

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    Re: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    OR - I could just ignore you. I like that option! You are the one wasting time. If you wanted to present your argument, you would restate in a way that people actually understood, rather than just being upset that we didn't understand you in the first place. You obviously don't care if we understand you; so I don't care either
    No patty that isn't what happened. The words are clear and he is wasting our time just as you are by taking up his cause.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle

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    Re: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Yes they do.
    Ok **** it, I'm done with you and your nonsense. Either you don't know, or are hiding something.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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