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Thread: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

  1. #191
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    Re: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Unfortunately for your argument, that is not the case.

    Why you you do not want to abide by the Constitution is beyond me.
    Do you just not follow any law you do not like?

    Again. If you do not like it, try to have the Constitution amended.
    Why? "Natural born citizen" has not been clarified by the actual Constitution. The only real thing it would almost certainly exclude is those who were naturalized. Those who have parents who are citizens are not naturalized. You are the one wrong here.

    Natural-born-citizen clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    http://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42097.pdf

    The weight of legal and historical authority indicates that the term “natural born” citizen would mean a person who is entitled to U.S. citizenship “by birth” or “at birth,” either by being born “in” the United States and under its jurisdiction, even those born to alien parents; by being born abroad to U.S. citizen-parents; or by being born in other situations meeting legal requirements for U.S. citizenship “at birth.” Such term, however, would not include a person who was not a U.S. citizen by birth or at birth, and who was thus born an “alien” required to go through the legal process of “naturalization” to become a U.S. citizen.
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    Re: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Why? "Natural born citizen" has not been clarified by the actual Constitution.
    It didn't need clarification. The Founders knew what it meant.
    Do you or do you not understand that the founders knew what it meant?

    And we can ascertain that from the language which our founders were familiar with, which was the information already provided from Vattel and John Jay.
    What did you not understand about that info?
    It was known what natural born meant.



    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You are the one wrong here.
    http://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42097.pdf

    No, you are the one who is wrong here.
    The Congressional Research Service does not dictate what is and isn't. The Supreme Court would.

    All you provided was an opinion, an opinion that falls short of actual reliable research into the topic.
    And coming as it does from the time period makes is suspect to begin with.

    It is nothing more than an opinion concocted to present an invalid take on the actual law.
    And it is wrong, as the weight of legal and historical authority is clearly on the side or parents needing to be being citizens, being born on the soil of the Country and owing no allegiances to a foreign country.


    Now if you like you may use that report and it's cites and we can debate. And I can show you each step of the way were it is wrong.

    If you like we can start with them saying that English Common law is the source that the Courts turn to to determine the meaning.
    That is inaccurate. It is; "At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar,"
    That nomenclature with which our framers were familiar with can be ascertain by the previously provided information on Vattel and John Jay.


    88 U.S. 162
    Minor v. Happersett ()

    Argued: February 9, 1875
    Decided: March 29, 1875


    The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their [p168] parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case it is not necessary to solve these doubts. It is sufficient for everything we have now to consider that all children born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction are themselves citizens. The words "all children" are certainly as comprehensive, when used in this connection, as "all persons," and if females are included in the last they must be in the first. That they are included in the last is not denied. In fact the whole argument of the plaintiffs proceeds upon that idea.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/88/162
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    Re: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Are you really not reading this thread?
    As already pointed out, she got it wrong.

    Again, I told which posts to read to find my position. Avail yourself of the information.



    No it is not a stupid reason.
    Why should it be? That is what the Constitution says.
    If you do not like that, get it amended, until such time comes, it stands.
    I said I get it! It's cool, McCain and Cruz were not born on US soil, so they're both not eligible for the presidency, whereas having been born on US soil Obama is.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I said I get it! It's cool, McCain and Cruz were not born on US soil, so they're both not eligible for the presidency, whereas having been born on US soil Obama is.

    No you don't get it.
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    Re: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

    Quote Originally Posted by SenorXm/Sirius View Post
    Cruz hasn't got a chance. He'll make noise, but he won't even get the Republican nomination. He's way too far right on issues, especially social issues.
    Again, with the "he hasn't got a chance". There's nothing that supports that. Obama won, that means everyone has a chance, if he could win.

    And as been pointed out many times Reagan was moderate, maybe even a little to the left on most social issues. He wasn't seen as a fanatic. His terms as gov. of Cali and president proves he was actually very moderate.
    Reagan was a solid conservative.

    Don't compare Cruz to Reagan, or today's GOP to the GOP of the 80's. It's apples and oranges.
    I'm comparing them in a the way that they aren't afraid to state their positions, and are both conservatives.
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    Re: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    No you don't get it.
    Why are you being so coy? Let's take them one at a time then, shall we? Was John McCain qualified to be president, based upon his birthright and birth place?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    As a matter of fact I voted for Reagan back in 1980. Cruz doesn't even come close to having the charisma that Reagan had.

    The more that I see and hear Cruz, the less I like him and he started out pretty low with me.
    Well, I voted for Carter. Voted for Reagan the next election. Very few have the charisma of Reagan, but doesn't mean he can't win. We sure could use him. I don't know if he is my first choice, but I would sure would vote for him.
    I also voted for Clinton and Gore, and I don't see a democrat today that I would even consider voting for.
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    Re: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Your postings?
    I do not need to search the forum for your posts if you can not be bothered to provide them.
    Here's the thread I started years ago on the issue of "natural-born -vs- U.S. citizen".
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-ele...-one-same.html (Natural Born Citizen -vs- U.S. Citizen: An Argument that both are "one-in-the-same")

    The only thing we seem to agree with is what I originally stated.
    The Supreme Court has not settled this issue.
    Fair enough. However, I believe our legal system has determined through legal precedent that a "natural-born U.S. citizen" is, in fact, defined as a person who is born in the U.S. or one of its outlying territories regardless of where the individual's parents were born. Such was the ruling in this U.S. Appeals Court case, SoS Achesen -vs- Maenza (1953), where a child born in the U.S. to two Italian born parents who retained his U.S. "natural-born" citizenship status based: 1) on the place of his birth (Cleveland, OH) and, 2) the fact that he did not renounce his U.S. citizenship despite being "forced" to serve in the Italian Army. Notice this case is similar to U.S. -vs- Wong Kim Ark.

    In both case, the Courts ruled that, ""All persons born in the allegiance of the United States are natural-born citizens." Now, we can continue arguing the distinction between "natural-born citizen" and plain old "U.S. citizen" til the cows come home. I'll just state that IMO the difference between the two are:

    Natural-born citizen = born to U.S. soil/jurisdiction under the law

    U.S. citizen = citizenship granted through the naturalization (application) process

    Thus, where being POTUS is concerned, their IS a difference.
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    Re: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Why are you being so coy? Let's take them one at a time then, shall we? Was John McCain qualified to be president, based upon his birthright and birth place?
    As you were told, they were already addressed.
    And you were directed to the posts that would clarify your feigned ignorance of my position.
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    Re: Lawyers say Canadian-born Cruz eligible to run for president

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    As you were told, they were already addressed.
    And you were directed to the posts that would clarify your feigned ignorance of my position.
    I said enough times now that they don't. So just answer the ****ing question. Was McCain qualified or not?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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