• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Jeb's Email Problem

Jeb Bush owns his own email server | MSNBC

Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush owns the server that runs jeb@jeb.org, the personal email account he used as governor to conduct official, political and personal business.

Asked who controls the server that operates that email address, Bush spokeswoman Kristy Campbell responded: “He owns it.”
Click to expand...

Hillary Clinton's Supporters Hold Steady - Bloomberg Politics

Former Florida Governor Jeb Bush used his personal e-mail account for all eight years that he served as governor. Bush recently released roughly 250,000 of those e-mails, waiting until last year to fully comply with state law that requires governors to turn over their records upon leaving office, but he released only those he deemed public. That fact went largely unmentioned by the media earlier this year, when Bush framed his presidential run in the rhetoric of transparency.
Click to expand...
 
cpwill said:
Yup, that is a significant issue, and one of many reasons why Jeb is not the best candidate for Republicans this go-round. He's the candidate most likely to turn the Clinton name from a liability into an asset.
Click to expand...

Good luck convincing the party leaders about Jeb. They have already annointed him as their best chance and Jeb is warming up his neocon foreign policy team already.

J
JEB BUSH, NEOCONSERVATIVE
In a speech today outlining his foreign policy, former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush offers a familiar refrain: “I love my father and my brother… But I am my own man – and my views are shaped by my own thinking and own experiences.” At a reporter scrum after speech in Florida last week, Jeb was adamant: “I won’t talk about the past. I’ll talk about the future,” adding that “it’s not about re-litigating anything.” Curious then that the foreign policy team that Jeb announced today is not just very much George W. Bush’s, but includes two of the most controversial figures from invasion of Iraq, former Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and former National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley. Short of including Dick Cheney, this is the strongest possible indication that Bush is embracing his brother’s foreign policy. What’s up with that?
Click to expand...

Jeb Bush, neoconservative | Fox News
 
iguanaman said:
Good luck convincing the party leaders about Jeb. They have already annointed him as their best chance and Jeb is warming up his neocon foreign policy team already.
Click to expand...

Jeb has a hard ceiling that Rubio and Walker don't, and both of them are acceptable to the party leadership and the "Moderate" wing. I don't think it's gonna be Clinton/Bush again. The Candidate From Goldman Sachs is going to have to make her case against a fresher face. :)
 
iguanaman said:
Good luck convincing the party leaders about Jeb. They have already annointed him as their best chance and Jeb is warming up his neocon foreign policy team already.

J

Jeb Bush, neoconservative | Fox News
Click to expand...

It's more complicated than that, however. Both Haas and Zoellick are the ones putting together the team which is a mixture of realists, Hawks, and neoconservatives. You've got your previous administration folks, to be sure, but you also got James Baker and the likelihood of Sullivan taking on a huge role. If you've got Zoellick's hands on it, it's going to be more realist recommended than one would expect. This was a guy who became a cover story for foreign policy magazines spelling the supposed end of neoconservative influence in the Republican Party because he was first tapped as a huge advisor to the campaign and then finally to be the head of Romney's foreign policy transition team. And the interesting thing about Rice (who is also on the team) was she was far more of a moderated presence in the administration and the tone substantively changed once she took on more of a role in W's second term.

Bush's foreign policy (should he get the nomination and should he secure the general), much like Obama, is going to be quite unique, but will be influenced by a smattering of thinkers. Bush is trying to mesh together the Hawks, the realists, and the neoconservatives with an America that is going to face different issues into 2020.
 
Last edited:
cpwill said:
The Candidate From Goldman Sachs is going to have to make her case against a fresher face. :)
Click to expand...

One hopes you mean an older, but less expected face. I can't stand this crap about a younger face. I thought Republicans could get away from being Democrats in this regard :p
 
sangha said:
This is just another example of the Bush's penchant for secrecy and belief that the law doesn't apply to them. It proves that his talk about transparency is just a lie.

This will obviously torpedo his run for President

/sarcasm
Click to expand...

I agree. What the heck? :p
 
Fiddytree said:
One hopes you mean an older, but less expected face. I can't stand this crap about a younger face. I thought Republicans could get away from being Democrats in this regard :p
Click to expand...

:shrug: Elect-ability is a pretty important trait in a Presidential candidate. Walker and Rubio both bring more experience to the table at actually governing than Hillary, and don't have a baggage trail of public scandals stretching back to the 90s besides.
 
Moot said:
If Hillary and Jeb have private email accounts then it's likely that a lot of other elected officials do too. So perhaps there should be an investigation in congress to see how many members have private accounts and if they're complying with the law, too. It would be interesting to know what goes on behind some of those congressional committees...especially the ones that use their investigative powers for political revenge rather than truth seeking.
Click to expand...

That is a red herring. Of course politicians and staffers have private email accounts, as well as just about every white collar employee in America. And yes, I am sure the majority of those people on occasion, or sometimes, use their private email account to discuss business matters. What they don't do is set up a server at home to exclusively route ALL their business emails to their server so as to hide all official business from their employer, and intentionally ignore their jobs federal security and contemporaneous archival requirements.

Jeb Bush was not in the business of planning and discussing national security, intelligence, secret and/or confidential matters. He was not the nation's top diplomat. And his work in Florida on highway speed limits or grants for play ground equipment was not the target of high stakes secret information.

Finally, Jeb Bush (like everyone else but Hillary) did conduct much of his business over his State email.

It takes a degree of hutzpuh (or lunacy) to compare Hillary's acts with Jeb's...rather like someone telling us Hillary may have robbed a bank but they located Jeb, a Republican pick-pocket.
 
maxparrish said:
That is a red herring. Of course politicians and staffers have private email accounts, as well as just about every white collar employee in America. And yes, I am sure the majority of those people on occasion, or sometimes, use their private email account to discuss business matters. What they don't do is set up a server at home to exclusively route ALL their business emails to their server so as to hide all official business from their employer, and intentionally ignore their jobs federal security and contemporaneous archival requirements.

Jeb Bush was not in the business of planning and discussing national security, intelligence, secret and/or confidential matters. He was not the nation's top diplomat. And his work in Florida on highway speed limits or grants for play ground equipment was not the target of high stakes secret information.

Finally, Jeb Bush (like everyone else but Hillary) did conduct much of his business over his State email.

It takes a degree of hutzpuh (or lunacy) to compare Hillary's acts with Jeb's...rather like someone telling us Hillary may have robbed a bank but they located Jeb, a Republican pick-pocket.
Click to expand...

Yes, it's perfectly OK for a Bush to ignore the law.

It's only wrong when a Clinton or an Obama does it
 
sangha said:
Yes, it's perfectly OK for a Bush to ignore the law.

It's only wrong when a Clinton or an Obama does it
Click to expand...

"It takes a degree of hutzpuh (or lunacy) to compare Hillary's acts with Jeb's...rather like someone telling us Hillary may have robbed a bank but they located Jeb, a Republican pick-pocket."
 
maxparrish said:
"It takes a degree of hutzpuh (or lunacy) to compare Hillary's acts with Jeb's...rather like someone telling us Hillary may have robbed a bank but they located Jeb, a Republican pick-pocket."
Click to expand...

Yes, when a Bush breaks the law, it's no big deal.

PS- the word is "chutzpah"
 
maxparrish said:
That is a red herring. Of course politicians and staffers have private email accounts, as well as just about every white collar employee in America. And yes, I am sure the majority of those people on occasion, or sometimes, use their private email account to discuss business matters. What they don't do is set up a server at home to exclusively route ALL their business emails to their server so as to hide all official business from their employer, and intentionally ignore their jobs federal security and contemporaneous archival requirements.

Jeb Bush was not in the business of planning and discussing national security, intelligence, secret and/or confidential matters. He was not the nation's top diplomat. And his work in Florida on highway speed limits or grants for play ground equipment was not the target of high stakes secret information.

Finally, Jeb Bush (like everyone else but Hillary) did conduct much of his business over his State email.

It takes a degree of hutzpuh (or lunacy) to compare Hillary's acts with Jeb's...rather like someone telling us Hillary may have robbed a bank but they located Jeb, a Republican pick-pocket.
Click to expand...

Well, maybe it's not so much about the job in as much as it is how they followed the law. It's a law in Florida for all officials to turn over all their government related emails and that includes the governor. Apparently there were over 250K emails in Jeb's private email account...but he only turned in 55K as government related. Like Hillary, he was also allowed to decide which emails to save and which to delete...so if Jeb does grab the GOP nomination then it's only fair that he should have to face the same scrutiny as Hillary regarding what emails he deleted and why.
 
Moot said:
Well, maybe it's not so much about the job in as much as it is how they followed the law. It's a law in Florida for all officials to turn over all their government related emails and that includes the governor. Apparently there were over 250K emails in Jeb's private email account...but he only turned in 55K as government related. Like Hillary, he was also allowed to decide which emails to save and which to delete...so if Jeb does grab the GOP nomination then it's only fair that he should have to face the same scrutiny as Hillary regarding what emails he deleted and why.
Click to expand...

Agreed. But even better would be that neither of these two grab anything but a chair. And who thought it was ok for that level of government business to be conducted on personal e-mail. That **** needs to stop.
 
Montecresto said:
Agreed. But even better would be that neither of these two grab anything but a chair. And who thought it was ok for that level of government business to be conducted on personal e-mail. That **** needs to stop.
Click to expand...

I was going to say that if this email nonsense continues they both stand to lose their party nominations. But I agree, personal accounts for government business needs to stop at all levels. My husband works for the DoD and if he didn't follow the protocol for using government email accounts for government business he could lose his job.
 
DifferentDrummr said:
They can still have a personal email address, IMO, but they need to make it accessible to some kind of outside auditor.
Click to expand...

So you think Hillary should turn over her server for examination, to an outside auditor?
 
sangha said:
Yes, when a Bush breaks the law, it's no big deal.
Click to expand...

I see you are mirroring Nixon's excuse that he was not doing anything that Democrats had not done. Didn't work then, won't work now.

PS- the word is "chutzpah"
Click to expand...

Nope, its not "the word". There are several words to choose from in the dictionary:

Variants of CHUTZPAH

chutz·pah also chutz·pa or hutz·pah or hutz·pa \ˈhu̇t-spə, ˈḵu̇t-, -(ˌ)spä\
Click to expand...

Apparently your inability to see the obvious false equivalency of the two email situations is matched by your inability to understand a well-known dictionary equivalency.
 
maxparrish said:
I see you are mirroring Nixon's excuse that he was not doing anything that Democrats had not done. Didn't work then, won't work now.





Apparently your inability to see the obvious false equivalency of the two email situations is equally matched by your inability to understand a well-known dictionary equivalency.
Click to expand...

NO, I get it...."different things are different"

That's why it's bad when Hillary breaks the law but OK when Bush does it

Because it's different
 
countryboy said:
So you think Hillary should turn over her server for examination, to an outside auditor?
Click to expand...

I think she should. I think she would be stupid not to. Heck, I think she will.

(as soon as her people are done removing everything that might cause her problems)
 
Moot said:
Well, maybe it's not so much about the job in as much as it is how they followed the law. It's a law in Florida for all officials to turn over all their government related emails and that includes the governor. Apparently there were over 250K emails in Jeb's private email account...but he only turned in 55K as government related. Like Hillary, he was also allowed to decide which emails to save and which to delete...so if Jeb does grab the GOP nomination then it's only fair that he should have to face the same scrutiny as Hillary regarding what emails he deleted and why.
Click to expand...

I often wonder if the well-funded partisan hacks of "progressive research" are completely tin-eared to their own irony? This Jeb Bush 'talking point' is a sudden new "discovery" by American Bridge 21st Century; an organization who promises its readers that their organization "...understand(s) the frustration you feel with elected officials who campaign on one set of principles but govern by another, because we feel it too. We believe you deserve better than that. We think our elected officials should have one set of principles, not one for each set of special interests they represent."

Apparently, however, they don't bother with monitoring all elected officials, because they only go after Republicans (which the website admits as its real mission). Gee...I wonder if they know how that sounds to someone undecided about taking them seriously?

So, their self-assigned job is to create disinformation. Yet the progressive "choir" swallows every half-baked "truthie" passed around, never embarrassed or skeptical of their sources. So let's get on our hip-waders and look at the TRUTH.

Florida:

1) If these "progressives" had bothered to read the statutes in question (of 2007), they would have actually found that the Chapter on Public Records has NO REFERENCEs to email, nor does it include email among its list of examples of specific records. In short, emails as public records were not defined or addressed in Florida law.

2) Bush was the first Governor to introduce and substantively use email (in 1999). And when he left employment any real "records" were to be returned, but it was up to him to decide if thought of his unofficial emails (his private ones) should be archived. Although not requested to, on his own he has delivered several huge caches since leaving. And you can access all 250,000 of them (official and private) that he has put on-line (not 55,000).

3) Unlike Clinton, there was no concealment or attempt at concealment. The personal server was not in his house, it was also housed state offices. CBS reported that everyone knew about his 'tech savvy' system. Nor was there was a Florida legislative committee chasing down where important emails were located (hidden), nor was there a State archivist 'negotiating' with him to provide emails. He just did it on his own, starting in 2007 (after he left office).

Note:

The existence of Bush’s private email address was widely known to the public and to the press when he served as governor, and he routinely fielded public and press inquiries himself using the address.
Click to expand...

Another big difference is that while Clinton was not open about her private email use, Bush was transparent about the fact that he was using a private account, according to First Amendment Foundation president Barbara Petersen.

"There’s nothing in the public records law about personal accounts," Petersen said about rules in Florida. "Some agencies have policies discouraging the use of personal accounts, but that was after Bush left office."

If there is any question that emails had been left out of Bush’s disclosure, a person or group could make a public records request and file a civil suit if they think something’s missing, she said. State law does allow private inspections of electronic devices if warranted to find missing texts and emails. But no one has made that challenge of Bush, Petersen said.
Click to expand...

Finally IF Bush actually had an e-mail that was defined as a record in 2007, AND if he did not turn them over within 10 days of a request (which was not requested), then he be liable to a 500.00 fine and a non-criminal violation of code.

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
Jeb Bush owns his own email server | MSNBC
Jeb Bush edited his own emails, says liberal PAC | PolitiFact Florida

Anymore nonsense comparisons?
 
Last edited:
What you said is not true

maxparrish said:
So let's look at Florida:

1) If these "progressives" had bothered to read the statutes in question they would have looked at the Florida statutes of 2007. The would find that the Chapter on Public Records has NO REFERENCE to email, nor does it include email among its list of examples of specific records. In short, emails as public records were not defined or addressed in Florida law.
Click to expand...

The statute defines public records as
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...TM&Title=->2007->Ch0119->Section 011#0119.011

(11) "Public records" means all documents, papers, letters, maps, books, tapes, photographs, films, sound recordings, data processing software, or other material, regardless of the physical form, characteristics, or means of transmission, made or received pursuant to law or ordinance or in connection with the transaction of official business by any agency.
Click to expand...


2) Bush was the first Governor to substantively to introduce and use email. When he left employment any "records" were to be returned, it was up to him to decide if thought of his unofficial emails (his private ones) should be archived. Although not requested to, on his own he has delivered several huge caches since leaving. And you can access 250,000 of them that he has put on-line.
Click to expand...

The law requires that he submit all public records when he leaves office. Not some time later
(4)(a) Whoever has custody of any public records shall deliver, at the expiration of his or her term of office, to his or her successor or, if there be none, to the records and information management program of the Division of Library and Information Services of the Department of State, all public records kept or received by him or her in the transaction of official business.
Click to expand...


3) Unlike Clinton, there was no concealment. The server was not in his house, his private one was also housed state offices. CBS reported that everyone knew about his 'tech savvy' system. Nor was there was a Florida legislative committee chasing down where he put his emails, or a State archivist 'negotiating' with him to provide emails. He just did it on his own, starting in 2007.
Click to expand...

Of course there was concealment. He did not deliver the records when he was supposed to so they were not available for FOIA requests.
 
Last edited:
Hey, if Jeb even knows how to work an email account that would be a plus in my eyes.
 
Mycroft said:
I think she should. I think she would be stupid not to. Heck, I think she will.

(as soon as her people are done removing everything that might cause her problems)
Click to expand...

If Hillary is Hillary, she will have stuff erased. Then IT folks will find evidence of extraordinary efforts to obliterate data, far beyond that of simple deletion. Then the the controversy will start all over again.

Either that, or like Lerner and her folks, she will have "crashes" that she will say required her to take the server to a landfill...but she can't remember where. (She has a problem with her memory, if you remember the "I don't recall" Hillary testimony in the 1990s.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom