U.S. admiral raises alarm over Russian military threat

donsutherland1 · Mar 13, 2015

From CNN:

The ability of the U.S. and Canadian military to defend North America could be jeopardized by stepped up Russian military activity, according to the commander of the North American Aerospace Defense Command.

Adm. William Gortney told the Senate Armed Services Committee on Thursday that Russia is continuing to work on its program to deploy "long-range conventionally armed cruise missiles," that can be launched from its bomber aircraft, submarines and warships. This is giving the Kremlin "deterrent" options "short of the nuclear threshold," Gortney said.

U.S. admiral raises alarm over Russian military threat - CNN.com

It should be noted that this is but one geopolitical development albeit by one of the world's major powers. With various other countries increasing their military strength, it makes little sense for the U.S. to be on fiscal path that could reduce U.S. military power, including but not limited to combat manpower, in relative and perhaps even absolute terms. In the 21st century world, power matters, just as it has in earlier periods. The notion that hard power can be supplanted by rules or international institutions is little more than a hollow rationalization that makes little or no constructive national security contribution.

American · Mar 13, 2015

donsutherland1 said:
From CNN:

U.S. admiral raises alarm over Russian military threat - CNN.com

It should be noted that this is but one geopolitical development albeit by one of the world's major powers. With various other countries increasing their military strength, it makes little sense for the U.S. to be on fiscal path that could reduce U.S. military power, including but not limited to combat manpower, in relative and perhaps even absolute terms. In the 21st century world, power matters, just as it has in earlier periods. The notion that hard power can be supplanted by rules or international institutions is little more than a hollow rationalization that makes little or no constructive national security contribution.

Don't expect much support of your notion from the Left side of the house.

Carjosse · Mar 13, 2015

donsutherland1 said:
From CNN:

U.S. admiral raises alarm over Russian military threat - CNN.com

It should be noted that this is but one geopolitical development albeit by one of the world's major powers. With various other countries increasing their military strength, it makes little sense for the U.S. to be on fiscal path that could reduce U.S. military power, including but not limited to combat manpower, in relative and perhaps even absolute terms. In the 21st century world, power matters, just as it has in earlier periods. The notion that hard power can be supplanted by rules or international institutions is little more than a hollow rationalization that makes little or no constructive national security contribution.

The US is already spending more than the next ten largest militaries combined, I don't think you have much to worry about. A little reduction in military spending is not going to do much.

Montecresto · Mar 13, 2015

Carjosse said:
The US is already spending more than the next ten largest militaries combined, I don't think you have much to worry about. A little reduction in military spending is not going to do much.

That's because it's not about defense. It's about hegemony, imperialism and dominance.

washunut · Mar 13, 2015

donsutherland1 said:
From CNN:

U.S. admiral raises alarm over Russian military threat - CNN.com

It should be noted that this is but one geopolitical development albeit by one of the world's major powers. With various other countries increasing their military strength, it makes little sense for the U.S. to be on fiscal path that could reduce U.S. military power, including but not limited to combat manpower, in relative and perhaps even absolute terms. In the 21st century world, power matters, just as it has in earlier periods. The notion that hard power can be supplanted by rules or international institutions is little more than a hollow rationalization that makes little or no constructive national security contribution.

Not to worry if Hillary is elected in 2016. She still has the restart button. It is sitting on her personal server.

MMC · Mar 13, 2015

donsutherland1 said:
From CNN:

U.S. admiral raises alarm over Russian military threat - CNN.com

It should be noted that this is but one geopolitical development albeit by one of the world's major powers. With various other countries increasing their military strength, it makes little sense for the U.S. to be on fiscal path that could reduce U.S. military power, including but not limited to combat manpower, in relative and perhaps even absolute terms. In the 21st century world, power matters, just as it has in earlier periods. The notion that hard power can be supplanted by rules or international institutions is little more than a hollow rationalization that makes little or no constructive national security contribution.

Heya DS :2wave: some seem to think we are not stretched thin.....how many do you think knows we have to revamp the Ohio class in less than 20 years? Moreover, the Russians have been testing us much more aggressively. Why do you think that is?

Today its not quite uncommon to allude to the Cold War (the superb 'War is Boring' blog has a great piece that advises people to stop ill-advisedly referring to the so-called “height of the Cold War”) and the idea that we're in a “new Cold War” with a “resurgent Russia” causing trouble and escalating tensions with the United States and its NATO allies. Especially in light of Russia's aggressive actions in Eastern Ukraine. This so-called “new Cold War” narrative has the Russians with their armed forces back in Europe and a dangerously unpredictable premier in the Kremlin.

Oh and they're building new nuclear submarines and the Russian Navy is gradually being revamped and increased in size and capability. This comes after all the Typhoon-class submarines have been phased out and are gradually being replaced. A cursory look at planned submarines and what has come in to fill the vacuum left by the gradual phasing out of the Typhoon's (in lieu of a modernization program which interestingly would have proved to be more expensive than simply building completely new and more economical submarines), the slightly smaller, but not overly inferior looking, Borei-class submarines, three of which have been already been put to sea (the third of which was commissioned just last month) and around another five are expected sometime in the near future, aren't really much to be concerned about. As always Russia perceives itself as a great power and such capital naval vessels are part and parcel of being a military superpower.....snip~

https://www.the-newshub.com/technology/on-russias-new-nuclear-submarines

joG · Mar 13, 2015

donsutherland1 said:
From CNN:

U.S. admiral raises alarm over Russian military threat - CNN.com

It should be noted that this is but one geopolitical development albeit by one of the world's major powers. With various other countries increasing their military strength, it makes little sense for the U.S. to be on fiscal path that could reduce U.S. military power, including but not limited to combat manpower, in relative and perhaps even absolute terms. In the 21st century world, power matters, just as it has in earlier periods. The notion that hard power can be supplanted by rules or international institutions is little more than a hollow rationalization that makes little or no constructive national security contribution.

For a few years we could probably have removed any threat from Russia. We didn't.

Montecresto · Mar 13, 2015

MMC said:
Heya DS :2wave: some seem to think we are not stretched thin.....how many do you think knows we have to revamp the Ohio class in less than 20 years? Moreover, the Russians have been testing us much more aggressively. Why do you think that is?

Today its not quite uncommon to allude to the Cold War (the superb 'War is Boring' blog has a great piece that advises people to stop ill-advisedly referring to the so-called “height of the Cold War”) and the idea that we're in a “new Cold War” with a “resurgent Russia” causing trouble and escalating tensions with the United States and its NATO allies. Especially in light of Russia's aggressive actions in Eastern Ukraine. This so-called “new Cold War” narrative has the Russians with their armed forces back in Europe and a dangerously unpredictable premier in the Kremlin.

Oh and they're building new nuclear submarines and the Russian Navy is gradually being revamped and increased in size and capability. This comes after all the Typhoon-class submarines have been phased out and are gradually being replaced. A cursory look at planned submarines and what has come in to fill the vacuum left by the gradual phasing out of the Typhoon's (in lieu of a modernization program which interestingly would have proved to be more expensive than simply building completely new and more economical submarines), the slightly smaller, but not overly inferior looking, Borei-class submarines, three of which have been already been put to sea (the third of which was commissioned just last month) and around another five are expected sometime in the near future, aren't really much to be concerned about. As always Russia perceives itself as a great power and such capital naval vessels are part and parcel of being a military superpower.....snip~

https://www.the-newshub.com/technology/on-russias-new-nuclear-submarines

Right, Russia's the instigator, escalator and trouble maker, and we're just sitting over here minding our own business while Russia's doing provocative fly bys. What's wrong with America if we can't protect ourselves with eight times the military expenditures of the nearest competitor? Oh, that's right. It's not about defense. We're stretched thin trying to cover the entire planet with the hegemonic policies of control, coercion and imperialism.

Montecresto · Mar 13, 2015

joG said:
For a few years we could probably have removed any threat from Russia. We didn't.

Yep, those provocative NATO expansions.

MMC · Mar 13, 2015

Montecresto said:
Right, Russia's the instigator, escalator and trouble maker, and we're just sitting over here minding our own business while Russia's doing provocative fly bys. What's wrong with America if we can't protect ourselves with eight times the military expenditures of the nearest competitor? Oh, that's right. It's not about defense. We're stretched thin trying to cover the entire planet with the hegemonic policies of control, coercion and imperialism.

That's Right we are stretched thin.....we didn't become a Superpower just to run around and help the meek. Moreover Russia is doing more than just Fly-bys.

Which says nothing of the Kremlin and how they feel.

That being said one wouldn't necessarily advocate the consumption of too much Kool-Aid regarding Russia's belligerency in Eastern Ukraine and the general thuggish and increasingly autocratic nature of its premier, Mr. Vladimir Putin. These are indeed issues to be concerned about.....snip~

Let me guess.....you want someone else to take care of our problem for us, Right? Hope someone will come and save the day, huh? :roll:

Fearandloathing · Mar 13, 2015

Montecresto said:
Right, Russia's the instigator, escalator and trouble maker, and we're just sitting over here minding our own business while Russia's doing provocative fly bys. What's wrong with America if we can't protect ourselves with eight times the military expenditures of the nearest competitor? Oh, that's right. It's not about defense. We're stretched thin trying to cover the entire planet with the hegemonic policies of control, coercion and imperialism.

Actually that's the first accurate thing you've posted to my knowledge.

Sorry all of you, but it is Canadian airspace being threatened here by a huge margin. The Russians dispatched several bombers to test Canadian airspace, triggering a NORAD alert while all you were arguing whether sanctions would work. There was NO provocation from Canadian Forces. Russian fighters have also buzzed Canadian frigate patrolling the Arctic. And they have been able to penetrate Canadian air space....think about that.

So, you are right. Russia's the instigator.

Look, Americans may have bought all that bull**** about a new Russia and all that, but Canada hasn't and won't. We've lived too long between the two of you.

Fearandloathing · Mar 13, 2015

donsutherland1 said:
From CNN:

U.S. admiral raises alarm over Russian military threat - CNN.com

It should be noted that this is but one geopolitical development albeit by one of the world's major powers. With various other countries increasing their military strength, it makes little sense for the U.S. to be on fiscal path that could reduce U.S. military power, including but not limited to combat manpower, in relative and perhaps even absolute terms. In the 21st century world, power matters, just as it has in earlier periods. The notion that hard power can be supplanted by rules or international institutions is little more than a hollow rationalization that makes little or no constructive national security contribution.

Living in the country with the smallest standing military in the G-8, having my country's air space invaded by nuke carrying Russian bombers is not what anyone would call comfortable.

Now, having the commander of NORAD, the most successful bi-lateral military venture in history, tell me that there aren't enough planes to do the job, makes me a lot more nervous than I want to be.

BTW, the report that no airspace has been compromised is wrong. Canada's defense minister last spring at the outset of Crimea announced to Parliament that Canada's air space had indeed been violated. I don't know about US-Russian relations, but Canada-US relations are as bad as the height of the cold war.

MMC · Mar 13, 2015

joG said:
For a few years we could probably have removed any threat from Russia. We didn't.

Yeah Jog. Now are brass has some major concerns. From Disbanding the Iron Brigade to Drone Problems and recruiting Pilots.

New Russian Submarines Are So Silent That The U.S. Navy Calls Them “Black Holes”

New Russian Submarines Are So Silent That The U.S. Navy Calls Them

>" The much-anticipated delivery of these submarines, dubbed by the US Navy as “black holes in the ocean” because they are nearly undetectable when submerged, is a key part of Russia’s naval strategy in the Mediterranean "<

https://www.defencetalk.com/russia-...rine-for-black-sea-fleet-49766/#ixzz34YYAeJnv

Montecresto · Mar 13, 2015

Fearandloathing said:
Actually that's the first accurate thing you've posted to my knowledge.

Sorry all of you, but it is Canadian airspace being threatened here by a huge margin. The Russians dispatched several bombers to test Canadian airspace, triggering a NORAD alert while all you were arguing whether sanctions would work. There was NO provocation from Canadian Forces. Russian fighters have also buzzed Canadian frigate patrolling the Arctic. And they have been able to penetrate Canadian air space....think about that.

So, you are right. Russia's the instigator.

Look, Americans may have bought all that bull**** about a new Russia and all that, but Canada hasn't and won't. We've lived too long between the two of you.

Then do what the **** you must and leave the US out of it. What patronizing drivel. I'm sick of the hypocrisy in it all too.

America’s Dangerous Double Standard on Air and Sea “Provocations”

But one might at least expect the United States and its allies to be consistent about their attitude toward provocative air and naval maneuvers. Instead, the United States has adopted a blatant double standard when it comes to the actions of its own armed forces. China, for example, has asked that U.S. (as well as Japanese and South Korean) military aircraft respect Beijing’s air defense identification zone in the East China Sea and provide timely information about flights entering that area. Washington and its allies not only refuse to do so, they refuse even to recognize the legitimacy of that zone. Yet such resistance is not considered to be provocative or creating a threat to aircraft safety.

In addition, the United States routinely operates reconnaissance flights barely outside China’s territorial airspace, including near a major Chinese submarine base on Hainan Island. Those flights, and China’s dispatch of fighter planes to intercept them, have led to a number of nasty incidents, including a near collision earlier this year and an actual collision in 2001. Yet Washington has brushed off Beijing’s complaints, noting that the reconnaissance planes are operating in international airspace. Indeed, U.S. officials chastise China for trying to intercept and harass the spy flights.

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/america’s-dangerous-double-standard-air-sea-provocations”-11721

Montecresto · Mar 13, 2015

MMC said:
That's Right we are stretched thin.....we didn't become a Superpower just to run around and help the meek. Moreover Russia is doing more than just Fly-bys.

Which says nothing of the Kremlin and how they feel.

That being said one wouldn't necessarily advocate the consumption of too much Kool-Aid regarding Russia's belligerency in Eastern Ukraine and the general thuggish and increasingly autocratic nature of its premier, Mr. Vladimir Putin. These are indeed issues to be concerned about.....snip~

Let me guess.....you want someone else to take care of our problem for us, Right? Hope someone will come and save the day, huh? :roll:

Not at all, it's within our means to solve our own problems, but smart asses and dumb elephants can't seem to succeed.

Montecresto · Mar 13, 2015

MMC said:
Yeah Jog. Now are brass has some major concerns. From Disbanding the Iron Brigade to Drone Problems and recruiting Pilots.

New Russian Submarines Are So Silent That The U.S. Navy Calls Them “Black Holes”

New Russian Submarines Are So Silent That The U.S. Navy Calls Them

>" The much-anticipated delivery of these submarines, dubbed by the US Navy as “black holes in the ocean” because they are nearly undetectable when submerged, is a key part of Russia’s naval strategy in the Mediterranean "<

https://www.defencetalk.com/russia-...rine-for-black-sea-fleet-49766/#ixzz34YYAeJnv

Don't **** with Russia, and there's nothing to fear.

MMC · Mar 13, 2015

Montecresto said:
Not at all, it's within our means to solve our own problems, but smart asses and dumb elephants can't seem to succeed.

One things for sure.....no others have become relevant to shows us they are even in the game.

Montecresto · Mar 13, 2015

MMC said:
One things for sure.....no others have become relevant to shows us they are even in the game.

Well yeah, that's because independents that outnumber both registered republicans and registered democrats, aren't truly independent.

MMC · Mar 13, 2015

Fearandloathing said:
Actually that's the first accurate thing you've posted to my knowledge.

Sorry all of you, but it is Canadian airspace being threatened here by a huge margin. The Russians dispatched several bombers to test Canadian airspace, triggering a NORAD alert while all you were arguing whether sanctions would work. There was NO provocation from Canadian Forces. Russian fighters have also buzzed Canadian frigate patrolling the Arctic. And they have been able to penetrate Canadian air space....think about that.

So, you are right. Russia's the instigator.

Look, Americans may have bought all that bull**** about a new Russia and all that, but Canada hasn't and won't. We've lived too long between the two of you.

Heya F&L. :2wave: They did the same with us to, plus pulled out a some top gun moves on 2 Recon Planes we have. They are the only Two in the world like them. 2 Pilots and at least 22-28 people aboard. U.S. Air Force RC-135U.

Russian Bombers Fly Within 50 Miles of California Coast

Excerpts:

>..."Four Russian strategic bombers triggered U.S. air defense systems while conducting practice bombing runs near Alaska this week, with two of the Tu-95 Bear H aircraft coming within 50 miles of the California coast, the North American Aerospace Defense Command (Norad) confirmed Wednesday.

“At the height of the Cold War I do not remember them getting this close. Mr. Putin had to approve this mission and he is just showing his personal contempt for President Obama right after meeting him in Normandy less than a week ago,” McInerney said.

McInerney said no American president has been treated with such disrespect in U.S. history.....snip~

Russian Bombers Fly Within 50 Miles of California Coast | Washington Free Beacon

Montecresto · Mar 13, 2015

MMC said:
Heya F&L. :2wave: They did the same with us to, plus pulled out a some top gun moves on 2 Recon Planes we have. They are the only Two in the world like them. 2 Pilots and at least 22-28 people aboard. U.S. Air Force RC-135U.

Russian Bombers Fly Within 50 Miles of California Coast

Excerpts:

>..."Four Russian strategic bombers triggered U.S. air defense systems while conducting practice bombing runs near Alaska this week, with two of the Tu-95 Bear H aircraft coming within 50 miles of the California coast, the North American Aerospace Defense Command (Norad) confirmed Wednesday.

“At the height of the Cold War I do not remember them getting this close. Mr. Putin had to approve this mission and he is just showing his personal contempt for President Obama right after meeting him in Normandy less than a week ago,” McInerney said.

McInerney said no American president has been treated with such disrespect in U.S. history.....snip~

Russian Bombers Fly Within 50 Miles of California Coast | Washington Free Beacon

The US air-force does the same damn thing to others. So what.

MMC · Mar 13, 2015

Montecresto said:
Well yeah, that's because independents that outnumber both registered republicans and registered democrats, aren't truly independent.

There goes that alleged solution. So now that leaves us back to the two there. Wherein the Democrats cede power to others and project none.

MMC · Mar 13, 2015

Montecresto said:
The US air-force does the same damn thing to others. So what.

So what....its called timing with events. Note how the Russians don't do that so much with a Republican President in Office. Which lets hurry up and point out that the Russians still test Republican presidents.

Just not as much.

Oh, and the other point was that they did it at the same time they did with Canada.

Fearandloathing · Mar 13, 2015

MMC said:
Heya F&L. :2wave: They did the same with us to, plus pulled out a some top gun moves on 2 Recon Planes we have. They are the only Two in the world like them. 2 Pilots and at least 22-28 people aboard. U.S. Air Force RC-135U.

Russian Bombers Fly Within 50 Miles of California Coast

Excerpts:

>..."Four Russian strategic bombers triggered U.S. air defense systems while conducting practice bombing runs near Alaska this week, with two of the Tu-95 Bear H aircraft coming within 50 miles of the California coast, the North American Aerospace Defense Command (Norad) confirmed Wednesday.

“At the height of the Cold War I do not remember them getting this close. Mr. Putin had to approve this mission and he is just showing his personal contempt for President Obama right after meeting him in Normandy less than a week ago,” McInerney said.

McInerney said no American president has been treated with such disrespect in U.S. history.....snip~

Russian Bombers Fly Within 50 Miles of California Coast | Washington Free Beacon

Not to diminish the threat, but Alaska is a long way from where you are. Me, a few minutes by bomber. And nothing with which to shoot them down apparently.

But yeah...they're challenging the borders and have been since the tanks rolled into Crimea and Harper hit back.

Montecresto · Mar 13, 2015

MMC said:
There goes that alleged solution. So now that leaves us back to the two there. Wherein the Democrats cede power to others and project none.

Yes, it's a back and forth yoyo, and the status quo remains.

Montecresto · Mar 13, 2015

MMC said:
So what....its called timing with events. Note how the Russians don't do that so much with a Republican President in Office. Which lets hurry up and point out that the Russians still test Republican presidents.

Just not as much.

Oh, and the other point was that they did it at the same time they did with Canada.

Yes, so what. The US carries out similar provocations itself, I posted an example already. Don't you ever tire of defending hypocrisy, or do you even know what it means.

U.S. admiral raises alarm over Russian military threat

donsutherland1

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How long is now?

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