U.S. admiral raises alarm over Russian military threat

EnigmaO01 said:

So what do purpose besides military action? Or are you just complaining again with no real solution?

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How does this question even apply with Don's thread? How did you come up with Military action over what the US needs to spend for defense? Or to keep pace with what we do? Looks like you aren't up on those reading skills much either. Naturally this isn't surprising with a lefty such as yourself. But it is what it is.

Do you even try to come up with a thought other than trying to rant about what others think of the Democrats and or YOUR MAN BO peep!

Montecresto said:

So you mean to say its ok grabbing all the land you want as long as at some point you stop grabbing land. Face it. The US has annexed its fair share of land, and Russia and China don't give a **** what you think about it, but they've voiced their opinion, and they'll be doing just like the US and going after their interests.

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Yep that's Right Monte. According to some we grew and became civilized and figured out we don't need to obliterate people and take their lands and make more states for the US.

Its those like China and Russia that think otherwise and that they can play bully. Step on the little people. Which says nothing about those Sunni and Shia that think they can impose their ways on people thru force, intimidation and terror.

Again it falls back to what one stands for.....and one thing that's for sure China, Russia, the Sunni and Shia, the N Koreans and the Pakistani. Do not stand for peace, justice, and liberty of freedom. They don't believe in giving respect.

But at least they know there is one country.....which is the US, that will make sure that they give us ours.

MMC said:

You got that Right. They are indeed and we even had a Russian Sub in the Gulf trying to get next to out Sub-base. I think we escorted them out or forced them out.

Russian nuclear bombers have flown into U.S. air space near Alaska multiple times in the last 10 days, several times causing the U.S. to deploy jet fighters. The strategic nuclear bombers have crossed into U.S. air defense zones 16 or more times, The Washington Free Beacon reported, which U.S. defense officials said is a significant increase over the usual number of times that occurs.

“Over the past week, NORAD has visually identified Russian aircraft operating in and around the U.S. air defense identification zones,” Maj. Beth Smith, spokeswoman for U.S. Northern Command and the North American Aerospace Defense Command, told the Free Beacon. Smith downplayed the potential threat, and said the incursions into U.S. air space were determined to be training missions or exercises. USA Today said this is the second spike in such activity seen since June and said the recent activity is tied to war exercises along eastern Ukraine. Gordeyev said that, along with patrols and searches for “foreign submarines,” the increased activity worked to ensure "the security of sea navigation and carrying out search and rescue, and scientific missions."

In April, a U.S. spy plane was approached by a Russian fighter jet in international airspace. In June, four Russian strategic bombers flew within 50 miles of the California coast as they did practice bombing runs near Alaska.


Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com Russian Bombers Fly Into US Airspace Several Times Over Last Week

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The General's statement that no sovereign air space has been compromised is wrong....both countries have grounds

MMC said:

Moreover, the Russians have been testing us much more aggressively. Why do you think that is?

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Because they know we are overextending our military resources, and are racking up one hell of a debt because of. The Russians know we have an expensive, confusing, and hypocritical foreign policy that has taxed our military for well over a decade now.

Put it in this perspective. The US spends more on our military than the next 8 to 10 nations combined (sources vary.) But even more disturbing, when you look at the entire planets spending on their respective nation's military might... US military spending accounts for some 38% of all military spending on this planet today. Yet our total population accounts for less than 5% of the world population. No one spends what we do on our military, no one is even close. The #2 spender, China, spends less than 30% of what we do. The #3 spender, Russia, spends less than 14% of what we do. The #4 spender, and down, are all in single digits.

I can appreciate a US admiral suggesting we be concerned about the Russian's tests of our resolve here and there. Our problem then is not liberals wanting to cut military spending, our clear problem is how we spend on our military to keep up with this expensive, confusing, and hypocritical foreign policy that all comes down to modern day imperial thinking.

We could cut our military spending by a third (perhaps even by half) and still spend far more than Russia and China does combined. At the same time we could handle Russia's tests here and there of our defensive resolve if we focused on domestic protections, instead of the present policy of running around the globe involved in way to many matters trying to instill our will to questionable results with one hell of a debt based expense.

But no one wants to hear these facts, they want to hear about how much more we can spend in a new round of Cold War with the adversary in full knowledge of our spending habits today. And worse, they are about to use that against us.

MMC said:

Yep that's Right Monte. According to some we grew and became civilized and figured out we don't need to obliterate people and take their lands and make more states for the US.

Its those like China and Russia that think otherwise and that they can play bully. Step on the little people. Which says nothing about those Sunni and Shia that think they can impose their ways on people thru force, intimidation and terror.

Again it falls back to what one stands for.....and one thing that's for sure China, Russia, the Sunni and Shia, the N Koreans and the Pakistani. Do not stand for peace, justice, and liberty of freedom. They don't believe in giving respect.

But at least they know there is one country.....which is the US, that will make sure that they give us ours.

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We grew out of our mischief, and now we are on parade as the righteous. Ok, I'll go with you.

OrphanSlug said:

Because they know we are overextending our military resources, and are racking up one hell of a debt because of. The Russians know we have an expensive, confusing, and hypocritical foreign policy that has taxed our military for well over a decade now.

Put it in this perspective. The US spends more on our military than the next 8 to 10 nations combined (sources vary.) But even more disturbing, when you look at the entire planets spending on their respective nation's military might... US military spending accounts for some 38% of all military spending on this planet today. Yet our total population accounts for less than 5% of the world population. No one spends what we do on our military, no one is even close. The #2 spender, China, spends less than 30% of what we do. The #3 spender, Russia, spends less than 14% of what we do. The #4 spender, and down, are all in single digits.

I can appreciate a US admiral suggesting we be concerned about the Russian's tests of our resolve here and there. Our problem then is not liberals wanting to cut military spending, our clear problem is how we spend on our military to keep up with this expensive, confusing, and hypocritical foreign policy that all comes down to modern day imperial thinking.

We could cut our military spending by a third (perhaps even by half) and still spend far more than Russia and China does combined. At the same time we could handle Russia's tests here and there of our defensive resolve if we focused on domestic protections, instead of the present policy of running around the globe involved in way to many matters around trying to instill our will to questionable results with one hell of a debt based expense.

But no one wants to hear these facts, they want to hear about how much more we can spend in a new round of Cold War with the adversary in full knowledge of our spending habits today. And worse, they are about to use that against us.

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Very nice post!!

joG said:

Well, had Ukraine belonged to Nato with Nato troops on the Krim? You are right and the Europeans should have realized that, when they went about the association treaty with Ukraine. But I was thinking of a more intrusive mix of measures.

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True. But it's that Putin had every reason to anticipate that that was the next step. Russia will prevent, or die trying, a Ukrainian NATO state.

Montecresto said:

True. But it's that Putin had every reason to anticipate that that was the next step. Russia will prevent, or die trying, a Ukrainian NATO state.

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No he didn't. Ukraine had asked for membership and been turned down.
The trade agreement does have that title 2, article 7 that those idiots in Brussels and Berlin put in without securing the boarders.

OrphanSlug said:

Because they know we are overextending our military resources, and are racking up one hell of a debt because of. The Russians know we have an expensive, confusing, and hypocritical foreign policy that has taxed our military for well over a decade now.

Put it in this perspective. The US spends more on our military than the next 8 to 10 nations combined (sources vary.) But even more disturbing, when you look at the entire planets spending on their respective nation's military might... US military spending accounts for some 38% of all military spending on this planet today. Yet our total population accounts for less than 5% of the world population. No one spends what we do on our military, no one is even close. The #2 spender, China, spends less than 30% of what we do. The #3 spender, Russia, spends less than 14% of what we do. The #4 spender, and down, are all in single digits.

I can appreciate a US admiral suggesting we be concerned about the Russian's tests of our resolve here and there. Our problem then is not liberals wanting to cut military spending, our clear problem is how we spend on our military to keep up with this expensive, confusing, and hypocritical foreign policy that all comes down to modern day imperial thinking.

We could cut our military spending by a third (perhaps even by half) and still spend far more than Russia and China does combined. At the same time we could handle Russia's tests here and there of our defensive resolve if we focused on domestic protections, instead of the present policy of running around the globe involved in way to many matters trying to instill our will to questionable results with one hell of a debt based expense.

But no one wants to hear these facts, they want to hear about how much more we can spend in a new round of Cold War with the adversary in full knowledge of our spending habits today. And worse, they are about to use that against us.

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Mornin OS. :2wave: China has increased their Military spending.....Russia has increased theirs. Others are doing the same. Despite the economics for each's own perspective.

Montecresto said:

We grew out of our mischief, and now we are on parade as the righteous. Ok, I'll go with you.

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Nah I didn't say anything about Righteous. Nor being Righteous.....so that's a false nomer.

You didn't want to say those Countries are standing up for whats Moral and Righteous.....did you?

MMC said:

Mornin OS. :2wave: China has increased their Military spending.....Russia has increased theirs. Others are doing the same. Despite the economics for each's own perspective.

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That does not change much. Even with Russia and China increasing their military spending, they are still no where near what US military spending is. Neither China or Russia is really closing the gap between their respective military spending in comparison to ours. Even with our downward trend from 2012 to 2014 mostly due to budget gridlocks we still are spending north of $800 Billion on Defense per year with no real end in sight. 2015 US military spending is projected to be higher than 2014, same story with 2016... and 2017... and 2018. We are going back up.

What matters is how we spend and what we are seeing for it. My original point still stands.

Technically speaking by the numbers you are getting your way, we are going to spend more year on year headed out as far as the CBO can project based on current military commitments around the globe and the impact here at home (Think VA costs from us just coming off the longest war in US history.) What is upsetting is during the entire time very few will be questioning that level of spending, and in fact wanting more to deal with today's round of Cold War.

It is pure madness on our part and a bit of cleverness on their part in Russia being able to bait us into spending more.

joG said:

No he didn't. Ukraine had asked for membership and been turned down.
The trade agreement does have that title 2, article 7 that those idiots in Brussels and Berlin put in without securing the boarders.

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Just a few months ago Poroshenko gave a speech and compared Ukraine with Poland, and said that just like they were once denied European inclusion, and had to fight for it, so too will Ukraine, and win. He then said he would turn his attention toward NATO and inclusion there as well. Russia however has drawn its red line, and will seemingly do whatever it takes to oppose a Ukrainian NATO state. That's just how it is.

Poroshenko also said he would propose Ukraine abandon its non-aligned status and actively seek inclusion in the EU and in NATO.

Poroshenko hints at EU, NATO status for Ukraine - UPI.com

MMC said:

Nah I didn't say anything about Righteous. Nor being Righteous.....so that's a false nomer.

You didn't want to say those Countries are standing up for whats Moral and Righteous.....did you?

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No, I didn't. No countries do. I just note that the average person accepts that US foreign policy is moral, when it's not. It's business.

OrphanSlug said:

Because they know we are overextending our military resources, and are racking up one hell of a debt because of. The Russians know we have an expensive, confusing, and hypocritical foreign policy that has taxed our military for well over a decade now.

Put it in this perspective. The US spends more on our military than the next 8 to 10 nations combined (sources vary.) But even more disturbing, when you look at the entire planets spending on their respective nation's military might... US military spending accounts for some 38% of all military spending on this planet today. Yet our total population accounts for less than 5% of the world population. No one spends what we do on our military, no one is even close. The #2 spender, China, spends less than 30% of what we do. The #3 spender, Russia, spends less than 14% of what we do. The #4 spender, and down, are all in single digits.

I can appreciate a US admiral suggesting we be concerned about the Russian's tests of our resolve here and there. Our problem then is not liberals wanting to cut military spending, our clear problem is how we spend on our military to keep up with this expensive, confusing, and hypocritical foreign policy that all comes down to modern day imperial thinking.

We could cut our military spending by a third (perhaps even by half) and still spend far more than Russia and China does combined. At the same time we could handle Russia's tests here and there of our defensive resolve if we focused on domestic protections, instead of the present policy of running around the globe involved in way to many matters trying to instill our will to questionable results with one hell of a debt based expense.

But no one wants to hear these facts, they want to hear about how much more we can spend in a new round of Cold War with the adversary in full knowledge of our spending habits today. And worse, they are about to use that against us.

Click to expand...

Now we have the reverse of the situation we had in the mid to late 80's, where the USSR was spending itself into bankruptcy trying to keep up the arms race and fight a war in Afghanistan. Now we have the US involved in seven wars and losing, and in Afghanistan. As well, US forces in the China Sea are being challenged, and Obama has lost trust with his allies, that little tantrum over Netanyahu still resonates with other leaders in similar situations; you know Stephen Harper who opposes any agreement with Iran is not his buddy especially after Keystone.

So of course he's going to make the US spend some money where it didn't have to before and rattle the citizenry. Scare them into protest hard enough or long enough, and the US will have to increase defense spending. The spiral has started.

And there is one cause, one. An inexperienced president who thought he could play with the pros...

Montecresto said:

Just a few months ago Poroshenko gave a speech and compared Ukraine with Poland, and said that just like they were once denied European inclusion, and had to fight for it, so too will Ukraine, and win. He then said he would turn his attention toward NATO and inclusion there as well. Russia however has drawn its red line, and will seemingly do whatever it takes to oppose a Ukrainian NATO state. That's just how it is.

Poroshenko also said he would propose Ukraine abandon its non-aligned status and actively seek inclusion in the EU and in NATO.

Poroshenko hints at EU, NATO status for Ukraine - UPI.com

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For what is left of Ukraine the probability of being accepted in Nato certainly improved with Putin's war of aggression and annexation.

OrphanSlug said:

That does not change much. Even with Russia and China increasing their military spending, they are still no where near what US military spending is. Neither China or Russia is really closing the gap between their respective military spending in comparison to ours. Even with our downward trend from 2012 to 2014 mostly due to budget gridlocks we still are spending north of $800 Billion on Defense per year with no real end in sight. 2015 US military spending is projected to be higher than 2014, same story with 2016... and 2017... and 2018. We are going back up.

What matters is how we spend and what we are seeing for it. My original point still stands.

Technically speaking by the numbers you are getting your way, we are going to spend more year on year headed out as far as the CBO can project based on current military commitments around the globe and the impact here at home (Think VA costs from us just coming off the longest war in US history.) What is upsetting is during the entire time very few will be questioning that level of spending, and in fact wanting more to deal with today's round of Cold War.

It is pure madness on our part and a bit of cleverness on their part in Russia being able to bait us into spending more.

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From the Institute of Peace.


National Defense Panel Releases Assessment of 2014 Quadrennial Defense Review
Report Addresses U.S. National Security, Sequestration, Force Structure


The consensus conclusion of the report is that there is a growing gap between the strategic objectives the U.S. military is expected to achieve and the resources required to do so. In their cover letter to Congress, NDP co-chairs Dr. William Perry and General John P. Abizaid wrote, “We must act now to address our challenges if the nation is to continue benefiting from its national security posture.” .....snip~

National Defense Panel Releases Assessment of 2014 Quadrennial Defense Review | United States Institute of Peace

joG said:

For what is left of Ukraine the probability of being accepted in Nato certainly improved with Putin's war of aggression and annexation.

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Glad to see you come around, a little lol. It will be met with great resistance.

MMC said:

From the Institute of Peace.


National Defense Panel Releases Assessment of 2014 Quadrennial Defense Review
Report Addresses U.S. National Security, Sequestration, Force Structure


The consensus conclusion of the report is that there is a growing gap between the strategic objectives the U.S. military is expected to achieve and the resources required to do so. In their cover letter to Congress, NDP co-chairs Dr. William Perry and General John P. Abizaid wrote, “We must act now to address our challenges if the nation is to continue benefiting from its national security posture.” .....snip~

National Defense Panel Releases Assessment of 2014 Quadrennial Defense Review | United States Institute of Peace

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To the bolded. That's the point. Expectations remain unrealistic, but that's changing, as it should.

Montecresto said:

Glad to see you come around, a little lol. It will be met with great resistance.

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in which way did i say anything inconsistent with the prior?

Montecresto said:

No, I didn't. No countries do. I just note that the average person accepts that US foreign policy is moral, when it's not. It's business.

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Well not strictly business we do all that humanitarian nstuff routine, and unfortunately.....the US has ruled out. Cutting out some of the competition. What happened?

That's not a dog eat dog mentality, nor a winning strategy.

joG said:

in which way did i say anything inconsistent with the prior?

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You seemed to agree that NATO inclusion is a Ukrainian ambition.

Fearandloathing said:

Now we have the reverse of the situation we had in the mid to late 80's, where the USSR was spending itself into bankruptcy trying to keep up the arms race and fight a war in Afghanistan. Now we have the US involved in seven wars and losing, and in Afghanistan. As well, US forces in the China Sea are being challenged, and Obama has lost trust with his allies, that little tantrum over Netanyahu still resonates with other leaders in similar situations; you know Stephen Harper who opposes any agreement with Iran is not his buddy especially after Keystone.

So of course he's going to make the US spend some money where it didn't have to before and rattle the citizenry. Scare them into protest hard enough or long enough, and the US will have to increase defense spending. The spiral has started.

And there is one cause, one. An inexperienced president who thought he could play with the pros...

Click to expand...

There are plenty of parallels. At the time the US was able to push the USSR into financial oblivion just to keep up with US / NATO activity, going into Afghanistan was the nail in the coffin for the USSR.

These days we seem to have a bit of a conundrum. Between Obama's inexperience and Bush 43's actions we have dug ourselves into one hell of a mess. We are being challenged because these other nations can see what we have done, and more importantly what we have spent to get such lackluster results.

Think about it this way...

Afghanistan is still not all that stable, with plenty of the nation not really under anyone's control. Pakistan happened to be where we found the most wanted man from 9/11. Iran is still not all that interested in abiding by the NPT agreement (or any other agreement.) Israel and the Palestinians are in a continual state of being the right shot away from a real mess, and it appears Israel wants to engage Iran. Syria collapsed into a multiple way long term civil war with no end in sight. The results in Egypt's change of power are highly questionable, the results from Libya's collapse are even worse. Iraq after years of war engaged in for dubious reasons was left in the hands of a weak polarizing ideological government backed by a run at the first sight of the enemy military, so now a sizable portion of that nation is no longer under their control. ISIS formed being able to take advantage of both Iraq's weak state and Syria's fiasco. And that is just really the last decade, and the entire region seems worse for it all.

Now, consider all the money the US has spent on the military and influence in the region when looking over these results. It is no wonder that Russia is baiting us into spending even more on our military simply because they know how ideologically divided, tired of war, and broke from it all we truly are. Well some of us, we have plenty on the right taking the bait suggesting spending even more than we already do simply because the Russians are giving us a taste of what we gave them 30-40 years ago.

Somewhere some historian paying attention would be laughing if it were not so sad what little we have learned from then to now, with damn near bipartisan stupidity.

Montecresto said:

To the bolded. That's the point. Expectations remain unrealistic, but that's changing, as it should.

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Nah....they don't do an assessment on whats Unrealistic......they are dealing with what has to be met now.

MMC said:

Well not strictly business we do all that humanitarian nstuff routine, and unfortunately.....the US has ruled out. Cutting out some of the competition. What happened?

That's not a dog eat dog mentality, nor a winning strategy.

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Humanitarianism like attacking nations that haven't attacked us and fighting others by proxy and contributing to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians across the region. But putting those positive aspects of US foreign policy aside, every time we roll out our military, it's good for business, that can't be denied.

MMC said:

Nah....they don't do an assessment on whats Unrealistic......they are dealing with what has to be met now.

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Nah, the days of US hegemony, dominance and exploitation are waning, much as that rubs the right a rash, it is what it is.