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Thread: U.S. admiral raises alarm over Russian military threat

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    Re: U.S. admiral raises alarm over Russian military threat

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    in which way did i say anything inconsistent with the prior?
    You seemed to agree that NATO inclusion is a Ukrainian ambition.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: U.S. admiral raises alarm over Russian military threat

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    Now we have the reverse of the situation we had in the mid to late 80's, where the USSR was spending itself into bankruptcy trying to keep up the arms race and fight a war in Afghanistan. Now we have the US involved in seven wars and losing, and in Afghanistan. As well, US forces in the China Sea are being challenged, and Obama has lost trust with his allies, that little tantrum over Netanyahu still resonates with other leaders in similar situations; you know Stephen Harper who opposes any agreement with Iran is not his buddy especially after Keystone.

    So of course he's going to make the US spend some money where it didn't have to before and rattle the citizenry. Scare them into protest hard enough or long enough, and the US will have to increase defense spending. The spiral has started.

    And there is one cause, one. An inexperienced president who thought he could play with the pros...
    There are plenty of parallels. At the time the US was able to push the USSR into financial oblivion just to keep up with US / NATO activity, going into Afghanistan was the nail in the coffin for the USSR.

    These days we seem to have a bit of a conundrum. Between Obama's inexperience and Bush 43's actions we have dug ourselves into one hell of a mess. We are being challenged because these other nations can see what we have done, and more importantly what we have spent to get such lackluster results.

    Think about it this way...

    Afghanistan is still not all that stable, with plenty of the nation not really under anyone's control. Pakistan happened to be where we found the most wanted man from 9/11. Iran is still not all that interested in abiding by the NPT agreement (or any other agreement.) Israel and the Palestinians are in a continual state of being the right shot away from a real mess, and it appears Israel wants to engage Iran. Syria collapsed into a multiple way long term civil war with no end in sight. The results in Egypt's change of power are highly questionable, the results from Libya's collapse are even worse. Iraq after years of war engaged in for dubious reasons was left in the hands of a weak polarizing ideological government backed by a run at the first sight of the enemy military, so now a sizable portion of that nation is no longer under their control. ISIS formed being able to take advantage of both Iraq's weak state and Syria's fiasco. And that is just really the last decade, and the entire region seems worse for it all.

    Now, consider all the money the US has spent on the military and influence in the region when looking over these results. It is no wonder that Russia is baiting us into spending even more on our military simply because they know how ideologically divided, tired of war, and broke from it all we truly are. Well some of us, we have plenty on the right taking the bait suggesting spending even more than we already do simply because the Russians are giving us a taste of what we gave them 30-40 years ago.

    Somewhere some historian paying attention would be laughing if it were not so sad what little we have learned from then to now, with damn near bipartisan stupidity.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: U.S. admiral raises alarm over Russian military threat

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    To the bolded. That's the point. Expectations remain unrealistic, but that's changing, as it should.
    Nah....they don't do an assessment on whats Unrealistic......they are dealing with what has to be met now.

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    Re: U.S. admiral raises alarm over Russian military threat

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Well not strictly business we do all that humanitarian nstuff routine, and unfortunately.....the US has ruled out. Cutting out some of the competition. What happened?

    That's not a dog eat dog mentality, nor a winning strategy.
    Humanitarianism like attacking nations that haven't attacked us and fighting others by proxy and contributing to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians across the region. But putting those positive aspects of US foreign policy aside, every time we roll out our military, it's good for business, that can't be denied.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: U.S. admiral raises alarm over Russian military threat

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Nah....they don't do an assessment on whats Unrealistic......they are dealing with what has to be met now.
    Nah, the days of US hegemony, dominance and exploitation are waning, much as that rubs the right a rash, it is what it is.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: U.S. admiral raises alarm over Russian military threat

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    From the Institute of Peace.


    National Defense Panel Releases Assessment of 2014 Quadrennial Defense Review
    Report Addresses U.S. National Security, Sequestration, Force Structure


    The consensus conclusion of the report is that there is a growing gap between the strategic objectives the U.S. military is expected to achieve and the resources required to do so. In their cover letter to Congress, NDP co-chairs Dr. William Perry and General John P. Abizaid wrote, “We must act now to address our challenges if the nation is to continue benefiting from its national security posture.” .....snip~

    National Defense Panel Releases Assessment of 2014 Quadrennial Defense Review | United States Institute of Peace
    Exactly!

    To achieve all we want today will require a level of spending even more unreasonable than what we currently do. My point is changing those "strategic objectives" after really discussing our present military needs, and that means looking at our foreign policy for all it has not handled well.

    If we objectively review what we have not accomplished over the past decade or so around the globe we might learn a little more about the importance of a strong national defense in place of modern day imperialism that in truth overextends our military capability at a huge expense.

    We could have all the latest toys, we could have all the best equipment, we could still have the best trained military force on the planet and it cost far less than it presently does if we were not committed to running around the globe being involved in, and in some cases directly causing, fiasco after fiasco.

    Russia knows this, and is doing to us what we did to the USSR at the height of the Cold War at the time.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: U.S. admiral raises alarm over Russian military threat

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    There are plenty of parallels. At the time the US was able to push the USSR into financial oblivion just to keep up with US / NATO activity, going into Afghanistan was the nail in the coffin for the USSR.

    These days we seem to have a bit of a conundrum. Between Obama's inexperience and Bush 43's actions we have dug ourselves into one hell of a mess. We are being challenged because these other nations can see what we have done, and more importantly what we have spent to get such lackluster results.

    Think about it this way...

    Afghanistan is still not all that stable, with plenty of the nation not really under anyone's control. Pakistan happened to be where we found the most wanted man from 9/11. Iran is still not all that interested in abiding by the NPT agreement (or any other agreement.) Israel and the Palestinians are in a continual state of being the right shot away from a real mess, and it appears Israel wants to engage Iran. Syria collapsed into a multiple way long term civil war with no end in sight. The results in Egypt's change of power are highly questionable, the results from Libya's collapse are even worse. Iraq after years of war engaged in for dubious reasons was left in the hands of a weak polarizing ideological government backed by a run at the first sight of the enemy military, so now a sizable portion of that nation is no longer under their control. ISIS formed being able to take advantage of both Iraq's weak state and Syria's fiasco. And that is just really the last decade, and the entire region seems worse for it all.

    Now, consider all the money the US has spent on the military and influence in the region when looking over these results. It is no wonder that Russia is baiting us into spending even more on our military simply because they know how ideologically divided, tired of war, and broke from it all we truly are. Well some of us, we have plenty on the right taking the bait suggesting spending even more than we already do simply because the Russians are giving us a taste of what we gave them 30-40 years ago.

    Somewhere some historian paying attention would be laughing if it were not so sad what little we have learned from then to now, with damn near bipartisan stupidity.
    To the bolded. Very true. This is the stated reason by China and Russia for vetoing every attempt by the US for securing a resolution for the use of force in Syria. Libya sighted as the straw, with abuse of UNR1973.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: U.S. admiral raises alarm over Russian military threat

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Nah, the days of US hegemony, dominance and exploitation are waning, much as that rubs the right a rash, it is what it is.
    Its not the people who are into defense that are worried over US Hegemony.

    But most of the planet is taking Note of Irans Hegemony.....which is about to be put in check. So they know where they stand on the food chain.

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    Re: U.S. admiral raises alarm over Russian military threat

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Humanitarianism like attacking nations that haven't attacked us and fighting others by proxy and contributing to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians across the region. But putting those positive aspects of US foreign policy aside, every time we roll out our military, it's good for business, that can't be denied.
    Monte, your view is entirely cynical and avoids an entire aspect of history that doesn't fit your preferred view. The US determined a very long time ago that open sea lanes and free trade accrued to not only our benefit, but to the benefit of the entire globe. So yes, we do benefit from the effort to maintain such things, but were the rest of the world to embrace the same objectives, they too would greatly benefit. The effort by Russia and China, and others, is to simply cheat the natural progression of such a system with agressive short cuts to get there sooner, and at a significant cost to others nation states. That's the difference, and it's pretty clear even if you choose to ignore it.

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    Re: U.S. admiral raises alarm over Russian military threat

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    Exactly!

    To achieve all we want today will require a level of spending even more unreasonable than what we currently do. My point is changing those "strategic objectives" after really discussing our present military needs, and that means looking at our foreign policy for all it has not handled well.

    If we objectively review what we have not accomplished over the past decade or so around the globe we might learn a little more about the importance of a strong national defense in place of modern day imperialism that in truth overextends our military capability at a huge expense.

    We could have all the latest toys, we could have all the best equipment, we could still have the best trained military force on the planet and it cost far less than it presently does if we were not committed to running around the globe being involved in, and in some cases directly causing, fiasco after fiasco.

    Russia knows this, and is doing to us what we did to the USSR at the height of the Cold War at the time.


    Nah according to Senate Arms Committee.....their only asking for 58 Billion over Sequestration.

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