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Two Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station[W:263]

Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

tres borrachos said:
Actually I did. All 105 pages, legal citations and all. I didn't commit it to memory. You did?

I saw pages and pages of recommendations (instructions) from the DOJ about what should be done now, everything from the changes in the force to changes in the court. Is the US government in the habit of making recommendations to "clean yourself up" and then just sitting back hoping it happens? Interesting. That's a large shift from the way they handle environmental issues, and bank malfeasance, and corporate problems, and so on. "Just clean yourself up and let us know when it's all fixed".

If the problem in Ferguson is the racism and cop issues and court issues, and those are fixed as per the numerous and very detailed recommendations in that 105 page report, then the problems should be fixed. Or is the DOJ just completely dishonest about what the problems are?
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To the bolded. Are you suggesting the department fabricated the documented pattern of constitutional violations in their report. How about the documented pattern of law breaking. How about witness testimony, did they create that as well?
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Montecresto said:
Nothing makes it justifiable. Has somebody suggested so? :2wave: hey Polgara.
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Greetings, Montecresto. :2wave:

I meant the shooter(s) justifying themselves in their own minds. How can you just go out and shoot a stranger? People who shoot politicians like Gabby Giffords or JFK etc usually feel they have a beef with them on a personal level, plus they're usually mental cases to begin with. This looked like a planned ambush just because they were policemen. *perplexed*
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

americanwoman said:
I was just about to say, why the focus on the emails.


Please if there was some kind of systematic abuse found at a local humane society shelter where dogs and cats were mistreated unfairly and had some animal rights abused, who would be one of the first posters on here to denounce that place? Lucky guess....
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And when abusers in shelters are identified, which they are, the abusers are removed (translation - fired), and/or the entire shelter is shut down if it can't be corrected.

Nice obnoxious post from you. Too bad it failed. But cute effort.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

tres borrachos said:
And I also read the report.

Please direct me to the page where it shows other more recent emails. And why is Holder letting them clean up themselves if they are racist, corrupt officers of the law? I know what the report says, and I know they were wrong a lot. We're past that. What is Holder going to do about it is my question? Who are the racist, corrupt ones in that force?
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You don't know who the boss of the police chief/force is do you?
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Montecresto said:
[/B]

To the bolded. Are you suggesting the department fabricated the documented pattern of constitutional violations in their report. How about the documented pattern of law breaking. How about witness testimony, did they create that as well?
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I never said the report fabricated law breaking and constitutional violations. In fact, I said the opposite. I assume that what they presented as far as the revenue generating, the stories outlined about the detaining of people unnecessarily, the problems in the courts, etc. are all valid police issues. You're the one saying that the removal of the root causes won't fix the problem. That must mean you disagree with the root causes being the problems.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

tres borrachos said:
And when abusers in shelters are identified, which they are, the abusers are removed (translation - fired), and/or the entire shelter is shut down if it can't be corrected.

Nice obnoxious post from you. Too bad it failed. But cute effort.
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I'm sorry I had responded to Jasper not tres borrachos.

Are we okay to quote things people said to other people again? So I can keep up, let me know if it's okay or possibly you just don't like when people quote what you said to others.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

polgara said:
Greetings, Montecresto. :2wave:

I meant the shooter(s) justifying themselves in their own minds. How can you just go out and shoot a stranger? People who shoot politicians like Gabby Giffords or JFK etc usually feel they have a beef with them on a personal level, plus they're usually mental cases to begin with. This looked like a planned ambush just because they were policemen. *perplexed*
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I see. I think F&L is onto something with regards to the shooters.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

tres borrachos said:
So if you're willing to tolerate corruption, you aren't corrupt....is that right?
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The infamous tres borrachos rat hole method of debating. Let's focus on the trivial, split hairs on the most minor points, but studiously avoid any discussion of the big picture.... I'll pass on it this time. Maybe you can ask more questions about the emails. That seems to be working well.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

JasperL said:
The infamous tres borrachos rat hole method of debating. Let's focus on the trivial, split hairs on the most minor points, but studiously avoid any discussion of the big picture.... I'll pass on it this time. Maybe you can ask more questions about the emails. That seems to be working well.
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Nice. So, tolerating corruption isn't corruption in your mind. That means the person who tolerates corruption is honest. Got it. Thanks for clarifying.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

americanwoman said:
I'm sorry I had responded to Jasper not tres borrachos.

Are we okay to quote things people said to other people again? So I can keep up, let me know if it's okay or possibly you just don't like when people quote what you said to others.
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Of course you did. And of course that wasn't me you were referring to, was it?

No, just keep nipping at my heels. It's fun.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

tres borrachos said:
I never said the report fabricated law breaking and constitutional violations. In fact, I said the opposite. I assume that what they presented as far as the revenue generating, the stories outlined about the detaining of people unnecessarily, the problems in the courts, etc. are all valid police issues. You're the one saying that the removal of the root causes won't fix the problem. That must mean you disagree with the root causes being the problems.
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Not quite. I said that racism needs to be purged from the FPD. But pointed out that that won't fix all of Fergusons problems.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Montecresto said:
It appears you didn't see a lot of things in the JD's report. But their names you're not going to see in a public report.
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You haven't answered my question yet. Why can't their names be in the public report?
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Montecresto said:
Not quite. I said that racism needs to be purged from the FPD. But pointed out that that won't fix all of Fergusons problems.
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What are Ferguson's other problems, besides police corruption and police racism? I didn't see anything in Holder's report that attributed the problems to anything but law enforcement/government officials.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

tres borrachos said:
Nice. So, tolerating corruption isn't corruption in your mind. That means the person who tolerates corruption is honest. Got it. Thanks for clarifying.
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"The infamous tres borrachos rat hole method of debating. Let's focus on the trivial, split hairs on the most minor points, but studiously avoid any discussion of the big picture.... I'll pass on it this time. Maybe you can ask more questions about the emails. That seems to be working well."
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

tres borrachos said:
Yes, he's the one who just resigned. I don't know him personally. Why do you ask?
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The city manager resigned?
 
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Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

JasperL said:
"The infamous tres borrachos rat hole method of debating. Let's focus on the trivial, split hairs on the most minor points, but studiously avoid any discussion of the big picture.... I'll pass on it this time. Maybe you can ask more questions about the emails. That seems to be working well."
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So, again, why aren't people who tolerate corruption themselves corrupt. That should be easy to answer. I think the opposite personally, and will say why. If you tolerate corruption, you accept it. If you are a passive observer of a crime and do nothing to stop it, you are not an honest person.

So if the members of the force saw corruption and did nothing, why are you so convinced that they should keep their jobs, and that it won't happen again? I'm not.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

ThePlayDrive said:
One of the most interesting parts of this to me is how the party that claims to distrust government is firmly on the side of the police in these cases. They will twist and turn whatever they can to excuse law enforcement and defend them no matter how obvious their wrongdoing is.
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The Republocrats are not ones to distrust government. They both love government and expanding its power over the People. What was once Conservative no longer is. Lots of modern conservatives are nothing more than militant authoritarians.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

tres borrachos said:
What are Ferguson's other problems, besides police corruption and police racism? I didn't see anything in Holder's report that attributed the problems to anything but law enforcement/government officials.
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I realize you've not been to Ferguson. There's a host of infrastructure trouble, just for starters, that won't be fixed by purging racism from the police department.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Montecresto said:
I realize you've not been to Ferguson. There's a host of infrastructure trouble, just for starters, that won't be fixed by purging racism from the police department.
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I've never been to Ferguson. Never claimed to. I only know what I see on the news and what I read in Holder's report.

What did you see as the other prevailing issues that cause the problems there? And how much improvement will there be in the lives of the citizens when the problems within the PD are fixed? Will there be capital investments in the town to replace the businesses that were destroyed in the name of protest last year?
 
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