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Two Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station[W:263]

Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

JasperL said:
You're misstating the issue completely. On one side we've got people blaming Holder and the DOJ for a report that revealed a completely dysfunctional and abusive police department. If you're read any of the report, the problems just are severe. One of the ones that stuck in my mind was when the boyfriend was at the scene of a car wreck where his girlfriend was badly injured and bleeding. When the cops arrived, they tried to get the boyfriend to back away, and he didn't or didn't do it fast enough, which is understandable - it's an emotional thing to see someone hurt and bleeding. So the cop then left the injured person, bleeding, arrested the kid, and charged him with FIVE infractions, and had his car towed and impounded. Several cases where women called the cops over domestic abuse, and during the investigation the WOMEN were ticketed for code violations. How willing are you to trust cops who come to investigate a crime against YOU and then give you a ticket?

The point is it's not Holder's fault for putting this kind of systemic dysfunction into a report. Does that mean it's the "cops" fault that some asshole shot two of them? No. But it's not Holder's fault that his department revealed a troublesome environment at the police department that is tasked with public safety, not generating revenue off the backs of its citizens.

And it's really not just a problem with Ferguson. I read a long article a while back and the entire area has too many little fiefdoms and they all need to pay for their own police, municipal government etc. and how they do it is through fines and penalties. And it just preys on the poor and gets them into downward spirals that are hard to emerge from, but the problem is the fines piled on penalties piled on warrants and court costs is a feature, not a bug, of how these little fiefdoms pay the bills.

The other thing, and this isn't directed at anyone in particular, is it's just bizarre that the right wing has a general distrust for the government, and is I assume opposed to what would approach a police state. But the report on Ferguson is a picture of the worst kind of government abuse against its citizens, and a great many of the conservatives here are blaming the messenger instead of for once joining with liberals in condemning government abuse of power. It really is something that should unite all sides - there is no defense of it. I have to assume, and hope, that those making light of the report haven't read any of it. If you can read it and find any reason for the black community to trust the police in that town, I will be amazed.
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Fearandloathing said:
Great post and thank you for sticking with the topic, the festering **** that created this mess.

While I have little respect for Holder, he gets kudos for being the one to expose this nightmare.
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I'd have to agree with FnL on this one.

I have no issue with finding fact and bringing things to light which are needed to improve the situation. This'd be Holder's DOJ's report.

I have every issue with the race baiting, inciting to riot, race hustling, and the violence caused by it. In Holder's statements and actions, there's reason to justify that rather than tamping down the race baiting, inciting to riot, race hustling with statements the support of the Ferguson PD when arresting / detaining rioters (which is different than protesters BTW), he goes off and makes statements about how he see himself as an 'Activist Attorney General', clearly inappropriate given the charter of the DOJ and the blind lady of justice and all that (it's supposed to be the law, not 'activism', eh?)

So, yeah, I think Holder's a lousy Attorney General and has done a lousy job, considering he wouldn't peruse voter intimidation in Philadelphia (benefiting Obama), but is all over every single race related case, and probably advised Obama as to how to get around the immigration laws, with this abuse of prosecutorial discretion.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

tres borrachos said:
Yes, you're right. So remove all these KKK wannabes, and the problem is solved in Ferguson. What is Holder waiting for?
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But that is for the people/politicians in Ferguson to solve, not Holder. He has investigated the shooting of Brown (and found the officer was not in the wrong) and investigated the police force of Ferguson and found loads wrong there.

And this is not just changing out a few police officers, this is endemic and needs a full overhaul from politicians, police chiefs, etc. before this problem is going to start to get better. And even then it will take years before the police has regained the trust of the community.
 
Fearandloathing said:
My good God.

You have zero understanding of this issue..

It isn't about Wilson...never was.

No wonder this **** never changes, you have reduced years of systemic corruption into a headline
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They will never let go of things like Wilson being aquitted, the presence of out of town protestors, Holders statements, and this shooting.

It's the only way they can avoid admitting to the corruption that ran rampant in the Ferguson PD and justice system.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

NIMBY said:
I'll defer to the serious comments that condemn the shootings and pray for the lives of the officers from:
the Brown family, the Brown layer, President Clinton and especially AG Holder;
With a brother as a policeman, Holder repeats what his brother says: "police have a right to go home alive each night" .
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Holder may say that, but he thinks your brother is a racist.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

I've got an eerie feeling man, as the weather gets warmer and the number of shootings goes up.
I was only 14-YO during the race riots n 1968 but I remember them vividly.
Just like the DEM Convention in Chicago that year which I rarely see discussed here.
Our lily white town had barricades up during the worst days of the riots.

sangha said:
Gee, a rightwinger isn't bothered by racists
Should we be surprised?
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The younger posters think they can learn and feel what we felt.
Imagine if the internet was around back then--I'm afraid we wouldn't be here right now.
Which is why I lean to believing that things happen in a predetermined order based on choices.

I am happy to see the strong statements from Holder, Brown's family, Brown's lawyer and the President.
I'll be watching the snarky smartasses on the Baier Special Report on FOX at 6:00 Eastern to see the talking points of our GOP friends .
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Montecresto said:
Ok. Well if your not going to read the report, I have nothing further to say to you.
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I read the report. Because of who comprised it, I have little trust in it. Furthermore, when an Atty General finds he has probable cause to investigate a police department under civil rights violations, once the report is complete it is arbitrated between the police department and the feds in private. You sure as hell don't publish the report especially on an area that is already been inflamed ironically in part by the Atty General. Now Ferguson is just one of about thirty ongoing investigations of cities Holder has going on at this time. They completed one on Seattle not too long ago. A great city, or use to be until Holder got done with them for now crime is on the rise. You see, this has more to do with than "racism". The agenda is for the feds to take more control of local police forces.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

You just said that Holder thinks my brother is a racist.
Why would you say such a thing, ReverendHellh0und ?

ReverendHellh0und said:
Holder may say that, but he thinks your brother is a racist.
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There's really nothing Holder can say to please you GOPs.
Which begs the question, why put off the vote on Loretta Lynch?

I wanted to believe in McConnell, and am on record for saying this.
However, it is clear he has lost control of both chambers in DC for the time being.
Hopefully, the resurrection of Jesus will help them over their lengthy Easter break .
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

X Factor said:
And we're back to blaming the cops, and with the clear support of someone who said earlier that it wasn't the cop's fault. Weird.
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Sorry, but you are comparing apples and oranges here. The Michael Brown shooting was not the cops fault, but that says zero about the police force and their behavior as a whole. Who knows the man who shot Brown could have been one of the worst racist cops in the force (not saying that he is, I am just saying "imagine/what iff scenario) and still have been totally in the right in the shooting of Brown, because his being right in this shooting says absolutely nothing about his other police work/attitude to African Americans. The report that showed his innocence there was just about that case, not about the police in Ferguson as a whole.

So yes, if you want to call it that, then yes, the US ministry of justice is stating after an investigation that the police force/police organization is to blame/racist because they have been shown to act in a manner that suggests/proves racist discrimination.

This goes deeper than just "blaming" the cops. Just because the Brown shooting was found to be justified means absolutely nothing about the normal behavior of the police force as a whole in that town. And sadly they have been proven to be a police force that is racist.

And why should we not blame the officers if they happen to be objectively seenracist in nature. That does not say anything about every single officer, there can be officers that are totally non-racist but as a whole, the police force there uses racist methods and chooses their suspects based on racial grounds. The report clearly shows that.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

VanceMack said:
7 emails over a 7 year span in a city government with hundreds of people? THATS what you consider 'systemic' racism???
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You obviously did not read the report
Our review of documents revealed many additional email communications that exhibited racial
or ethnic bias, as well as other forms of bias. Our investigation has not revealed any indication
that any officer or court clerk engaged in these communications was ever disciplined. Nor did
we see a single instance in which a police or court recipient of such an email asked that the
sender refrain from sending such emails, or any indication that these emails were reported as
inappropriate. Instead, the emails were usually forwarded along to others.49
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Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

JasperL said:
LOL, another person who hasn't read any of the report. :roll:

FWIW, one big problem was those emails were sent by supervisors, the bosses, and the environment was such that supervisors felt comfortable sending, and others forwarding, those emails without any fear of negative repercussions, and none occurred. Not even the most benign - "Hey Bob, let's keep the work email clean OK."
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It looks like everyone who thinks the report didn't prove that there's racism in Ferguson's justice system are people who didn't read the report
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

NIMBY said:
This distance concerns me as my wife and I will be in St. Louis next Wednesday through Sunday for the D1 NCAA Wrestling tournament.
Sold out, there are always dozens of ticket scalpers around the Scottrade Center that you have to walk through.
We usually walk to the Arch at least once down a beautiful boulevard between sessions.

Plus, it's the first weekend of March Madness in the NCAA Men's Basketball.
Sports bars/restaurants are packed to the gills in my hotel area.

In wrestling, at least one Congressman, Jim Jordan will be there--so there will be more security.
His son is seeded 3rd at 165 while his nephew is seeded 5th at the same weight.



I know Missouri has more lax gun laws than Illinois but I don't own a gun.
I don't know the law about carrying cutting devices for hand-to-hand combat if I or my wife is assaulted.

Obviously, I'll get my share of this Ferguson mess next week if I so choose.
Though I like to take naps between sessions, two sessions a day.
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http://www.knifeup.com/missouri-knife-laws/

If you want to carry a pocket knife, the farther south you go, the less restricted and more expected it is ;)

I get grief for not carrying a blade on me all the time lol. But check the city ordinances where you will be. Just to be sure.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

NIMBY said:
You just said that Holder thinks my brother is a racist.
Why would you say such a thing, ReverendHellh0und ?
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Eric Holder believes all cops are racists, targets ‘unconscious bias’ | New York Post



There's really nothing Holder can say to please you GOPs.
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I'm not a republican, you do yourself a disservice when you suggest I am.


Which begs the question, why put off the vote on Loretta Lynch?
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You would have to ask a republican.

I wanted to believe in McConnell, and am on record for saying this.
However, it is clear he has lost control of both chambers in DC for the time being.
Hopefully, the resurrection of Jesus will help them over their lengthy Easter break .[/QUOTE]
 
Obama, Holder and Sharpton should be proud of themselves...their continued inflaming of racial tensions just got 2 more cops shot.

I also saw Holder's comments about it. Talk about PUKE! If i were a member of one of those cops' families, i'd tell the asshole to his face to take a stroll through traffic, preferably where semi-trucks frequently travel.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

VanceMack said:
7 emails over a 7 year span in a city government with hundreds of people? THATS what you consider 'systemic' racism???

Really?

Maybe they should all have just used private emails.
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There's 105 pages documenting systemic violations of citizens first and fourth amendment rights, as well as violations of the fourteenth amendment. There's also all manner of law violations. That's all before we get to the ethical codes of conduct that were constantly violated. It's painful, but read the report, and you'll no longer support the indefensible.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

vesper said:
I read the report. Because of who comprised it, I have little trust in it. Furthermore, when an Atty General finds he has probable cause to investigate a police department under civil rights violations, once the report is complete it is arbitrated between the police department and the feds in private. You sure as hell don't publish the report especially on an area that is already been inflamed ironically in part by the Atty General. Now Ferguson is just one of about thirty ongoing investigations of cities Holder has going on at this time. They completed one on Seattle not too long ago. A great city, or use to be until Holder got done with them for now crime is on the rise. You see, this has more to do with than "racism". The agenda is for the feds to take more control of local police forces.
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Ok. If you don't trust the governments report, I have nothing further to say to you.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

sangha said:
It looks like everyone who thinks the report didn't prove that there's racism in Ferguson's justice system are people who didn't read the report
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Or claim they did, but just don't trust it.
 
Roadvirus said:
Obama, Holder and Sharpton should be proud of themselves...their continued inflaming of racial tensions just got 2 more cops shot.

I also saw Holder's comments about it. Talk about PUKE! If i were a member of one of those cops' families, i'd tell the asshole to his face to take a stroll through traffic, preferably where semi-trucks frequently travel.
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How about you read the report, and then come in here with your opinion, in that order.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Montecresto said:
There's 105 pages documenting systemic violations of citizens first and fourth amendment rights, as well as violations of the fourteenth amendment. There's also all manner of law violations. That's all before we get to the ethical codes of conduct that were constantly violated. It's painful, but read the report, and you'll no longer support the indefensible.
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You would think so, wouldn't you?

I had just highlighted a small instance within the report, first since I couldn't exactly post the whole thing and second I thought people would actually go to the report I linked and read it. I was wrong. So now they laugh at and blow off the small portion I quoted from it instead of reading it.
 
Roadvirus said:
Obama, Holder and Sharpton should be proud of themselves...their continued inflaming of racial tensions just got 2 more cops shot.

I also saw Holder's comments about it. Talk about PUKE! If i were a member of one of those cops' families, i'd tell the asshole to his face to take a stroll through traffic, preferably where semi-trucks frequently travel.
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Racial tensions were inflamed by the actions of both the police and the city....the protests and sadly this are the result of that tension
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

RedAkston said:
Stupidity breeds stupidity. This entire fiasco was based on a lie from the beginning and now we have cops getting shot. **** like this makes me sick.
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Worse, despite a formal finding that it was 100% absolutely false, neither the president nor AG will retract anything they said - and instead specifically the AG diverted to attack the police department.

Back to Travon Martin I pointed out Obama wasn't merely race baiting, but rather acting in an outright racist manner.

(No, I'm NOT raising the Martin-Zimmerman topic, but rather pointing out the trend of the current administration - and how it has gotten worse, not better to the point of virtually advocating race riots and a race war.)
 
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Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

sangha said:
I get it

Anecdotes won't prove racism, nor will any quantitative info. It's obvious that there is nothing that would convince you that racism exists in Ferguon's PD

But you're certain that the DoJ is racist. In that case, I'm sure you'll accept anecdotes, statistics, and complete fabrications to support your belief
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No, there may be racism in Ferguson's department. There may be racism in every police department but I don't believe it's pervasive. I think if you look hard and long enough you'll find it everywhere but on balance it's minimal. I don't believe that racism in Ferguson is systemic.

I believe that Holder is racist because of what he's said. He's interested in Travon Martin and in Ferguson but shows no interest in investigating any police relating killing where the victim is not black. Some of the reason for that is politicians run to where the noise is and when a non black is killed by police, riots don't follow. Sometimes I think that race relations were better when I was in high school a long time ago when we had black friends and nobody thought anything about it. Now, it's big money, big media and lots of power.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

americanwoman said:
You would think so, wouldn't you?

I had just highlighted a small instance within the report, first since I couldn't exactly post the whole thing and second I thought people would actually go to the report I linked and read it. I was wrong. So now they laugh at and blow off the small portion I quoted from it instead of reading it.
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Well, I mean it just is what it is. I don't understand why this is so politicized. There's an American police department that has, as a matter of policy, and with a compliant court, been violating the law and officer code of ethics and citizens constitutional protections. And all these apparent racists themselves can say is that the black folk in Ferguson are anti-cop punks.
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

joko104 said:
Worse, despite a formal finding that it was 100% absolutely false, neither the president nor AG will retract anything they said - and instead specifically the AG diverted to attack the police department.

Back to Travon Martin I pointed out Obama wasn't merely race baiting, but rather acting in an outright racist manner.

(No, I'm NOT raising the Martin-Zimmerman topic, but rather pointing out the trend of the current administration - and how it has gotten worse, not better to the point of virtually advocating race riots and a race war.)
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So investigations are attacks. Is Trey Gowdy attacking Hillary Clinton?
 
Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Montecresto said:
Well, I mean it just is what it is. I don't understand why this is so politicized. There's an American police department that has, as a matter of policy, and with a compliant court, been violating the law and officer code of ethics and citizens constitutional protections. And all these apparent racists themselves can say is that the black folk in Ferguson are anti-cop punks.
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You failed at "racist" and I was right there with ya up until then......
 
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