Two Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station[W:263]

Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

American said:

Frankly, I think these death are Holder's fault. I know I'll get attacked by the race baiters, but his insistance on making sure racism was injected into his post report comments are directly related to their deaths in my views.

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The shooting is absolutely unnacceptable, those at fault must be found and brought to justice. But I think the actual behavior of citizen and cop drove the situation further than the comments of some politician. The report about the Ferguson police department was rather damning and it seems they weren’t, on whole, acting appropriately toward the people. The people similarly have behaved badly and lashed out in inexcusable violence. I think it’s easy to just point a finger at one guy, but I think that’s also a gross oversimplification of the complex dynamics of this system. And if we really want to solve the problem, we must examine the actual cause and effect relationships that have led us to this point.

Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

eohrnberger said:

I see. Your preference is that the cops stay put and just become defenseless targets?

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No. My preference would be that the ferguson police department purge itself of its racist elements, and begin to rebuild their relationship with the community. Your own racism is squeezing out the cracks of your posts!

Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

X Factor said:

I didn't realize there was such a thing. My question is, why should anti cop douchebags get to expect anything from the cops?

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Those anti-cop douchebags still pay for policing services. Less you also want them to be able to stop paying taxes for police service. Otherwise, service paid for must be rendered.

Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

American said:

Holder poltiticized the whole thing, because that's what he does with everything.

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Mornin American. :2wave: He did and that's where more problems came in. All can pull up his speeches he made and hear from themselves what his words were.

All on Ferguson even before his Report.

Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

X Factor said:

Because, you know, if they defend themselves, the cry will be "Did you really have to shoot him though? You could have used gentler methods."

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Yeah. Amazing how few realize the thin blue line between civil order (more or less) and civil disorder.
They are all in favor of this thin blue line being based on restorative justice, until the violence and crime come to their neighborhoods. Then it's just the opposite.

How many would be willing to maintain the position, I wonder, of 'economically disadvantaged' receiving their light sentences after it's all their property that's disappeared from their house?

Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Montecresto said:

White cops on the force who haven't participated in racist behavior, and who treat all Ferguson residents with equal respect, have no worries.

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BS. At this point just being white makes the cop a "racist" thanks to the campaign out of this administration that has encouraged race baiting.
Were the two cops just standing outside, one shot in the face the other his shoulder, have a giant Red R on their forehead that identified them as a racist? Then the mob attacked the cops that tried to go to their aid. What a bunch of *&*&& animals.

Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Ferguson Chief talking. Damn these cops were lucky. Bullets in the face.

Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

eohrnberger said:

Yeah. Amazing how few realize the thin blue line between civil order (more or less) and civil disorder.
They are all in favor of this thin blue line being based on restorative justice, until the violence and crime come to their neighborhoods. Then it's just the opposite.

How many would be willing to maintain the position, I wonder, of 'economically disadvantaged' receiving their light sentences after it's all their property that's disappeared from their house?

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Wow, you're right! That totally excuses excessive force, targeting specific races, and using the policing power as a form of revenue generation.

Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

tres borrachos said:

I'm not being sarcastic. I'm being serious. If the white cops are so terrible, and the racism is so prevalent, then get rid of them. Move the white officers to another force. Then these problems which Holder and his DOJ identified will simply disappear. Unless the report can identify the individual ones, there is no other answer.

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My apologies if it wasn't intended sarcasm. But why are you broad brushing? The JD's report didn't accuse all the white cops. But why wouldn't you be in favor of purging racists from the department, this makes no sense to me?

Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

vesper said:

What a bunch of *&*&& animals.

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When you treat people like animals for long enough, it's what they become.

Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Montecresto said:

My apologies if it wasn't intended sarcasm. But why are you broad brushing? The JD's report didn't accuse all the white cops. But why wouldn't you be in favor of purging racists from the department, this makes no sense to me?

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Then if the report shows who these racist white cops are, and the report proves that the problems with the black crime rate and treatment of blacks being arrested in Ferguson are attributable to these specific white cops, then transfer them or fire them. I don't know what it is you didn't understand the first time I said that, monte.

I'm sure once those racist cops are purged, we will also see a dramatic drop in those statistics too, because from what I hear the DOJ report said, it's the way it is because of these racist cops. Correct?

I would not want to be a cop for all of the money in the world. Anywhere.

Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

X Factor said:

I didn't realize there was such a thing. My question is, why should anti cop douchebags get to expect anything from the cops?

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There are well behaved police all over the country, and from all different races. All that needs to happen is for departments to purge those that aren't.

Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Deuce said:

But when Sarah Palin puts targets on various political opponents, or rhetoric about Muslims steps up to ridiculous levels, there's no responsibility.

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The Sarah Palin thing is pretty much ridiculous, and was at the time. It's invocation is mostly useful in that it demonstrates the intellectual unseriousness of the speaker.

"Rhetoric about Muslims" is a more serious issue, but similarly non-problematic. Anti-Semitism is far more prevalent in this country, and anti-Islamic sentiment is fairly low.

Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Unless I am mistaken, the most damning revelation to come out of Holder's report was that the Ferguson police department was basically "fund raising" by excessively ticketing people for various minor violations of the law and this practice was disproportionately effecting blacks. Makes perfect sense if the practice was being carried out in predominately black neighborhoods, I guess. If this really was happening I can understand why the residents would be upset.

I think Holder put himself in a very bad position right out of the gates by some of his statements which seemed to indict the officer who shot Micheal Brown before all of the facts were known. He gave the appearance not of someone who was interested in justice, but of someone rushing to judgement for the purposes of furthering an agenda. He created that perception of himself so now it is very easy for people to question his motives for including what basically amounts to an indictment of the Ferguson Police Department for activities completely unrelated to the original event. I have to admit that it does seem odd to read about excessive citations in a report that was supposed to be about a shooting...

Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

tres borrachos said:

Then if the report shows who these racist white cops are, and the report proves that the problems with the black crime rate and treatment of blacks being arrested in Ferguson are attributable to these specific white cops, then transfer them or fire them. I don't know what it is you didn't understand the first time I said that, monte.

I'm sure once those racist cops are purged, we will also see a dramatic drop in those statistics too, because from what I hear the DOJ report said, it's the way it is because of these racist cops. Correct?

I would not want to be a cop for all of the money in the world. Anywhere.

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No. People will commit crimes whether or not there are racist cops on the force. But that's no reason to retain racist cops on the force.

Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Oops he isn't the Ferguson Chief talking, he's the St. Louis County chief.

Articulate guy.

Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

americanwoman said:

American I fully condem this violence but you just can't always shoot the messenger. I am not trying to attack you or be a race baiter but Holder did not pick up the guns and shoot. Do you really think either the racism in the report was purposely exaggerated or injected to incite violence?

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I don't think that this report was intended to incite violence, more likely for the political value of changing the party/personnel in control. How many DOJ "racism" reports are issued for our many areas now controlled by the "correct" (demorat) party? Just as code pink largely shut up soon after Obama became the CinC one can see that the "outrage" has curiously political undertones.

Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Montecresto said:

No. People will commit crimes whether or not there are racist cops on the force. But that's no reason to retain racist cops on the force.

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I don't recall anyone saying that racists should be retained on forces. Or sexists. Or Catholic haters. Or Muslim haters. Or cops who indiscriminately shoot stray dogs. Or cops who trade sex for letting hookers off.

But if the problems in Ferguson are tied to these racist cops, then it's incumbent upon the DOJ to remove them from Ferguson so the problems that they cause will go away. And presumably the problems that they cause will go away. That's what happens when you remove the root cause from anything.

Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Until a community that believes itself wronged sees justice exacted upon the wrong-doers, this is going to keep happening. It is going to be a loooooong summer until somebody is thrown into the volcano. The longer it draws out, the more somebodies will be needed to appease the gods.

Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Update:

Two officers were shot in front of the Ferguson Police Department early Thursday, authorities said, as demonstrators gathered after the city's police chief resigned in the wake of a scathing Justice Department report alleging bias in the police department and court. A 32-year-old officer from nearby Webster Groves was shot in the face and a 41-year-old officer from St. Louis County was shot in the shoulder, St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar said at a news conference. Both were taken to a hospital, where Belmar said they were conscious. He said he did not have further details about their conditions but described their injuries as "serious."

Someone at the scene, unseen and unidentified in the video, says: "Acknowledgement nine months ago would have kept that from happening."

The acting head of the Justice Department's civil rights division released a statement saying the U.S. government remains committed to reaching a "court-enforceable agreement" to address Ferguson's "unconstitutional practices," regardless of who's in charge of the city......snip~

Two officers shot outside Ferguson Police Headquarters







Does that even look Right.....Police all gunned up and in defense around a Police Station? Why was this allowed to keep being pushed to this point, again? Those are Black, White and even a couple of Latino Cops are out there. Yet people aren't discriminating when it comes to the Badge, huh?

Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

tres borrachos said:

Is anyone surprised this happened? I'm not.

I see they're resigning in droves in Ferguson, from the Chief on down. Personally I can't understand why any white person would take a job as a cop there anymore. It's a poisonous atmosphere. Let them set up an all-black force and I'm sure their crime problems will simply disappear.

Holder. Unbelievable.

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And Holder is to blame because he exposed them for what the police force did wrong in that town?

The white (and to some extent also the black) police officers act like a bunch of KKK wannabee cops and an investigation proves the racist nature of that police force and then this is all Holder's fault?

Sorry, but the investigation into the shooting of Brown cleared the officer so that toxic situation was solved by Holder. But Holder cannot be to blame for the fact that the police there is racist.

If there is a toxic situation it is one for blacks in that community due to some idiot cops.

Example, a 32 year old African American man who just played a game of basketball is sitting in his car cooling down from the game that he and friends played in a public park in Ferguson. Then a cop car pulls up behind the man blocking his car. He demands the man's social security number and identification. Without any cause or reason the officer accuses the 32 year old of being a pedophile (because there happen to be kids in the park) and orders the man out of his car for a pat-down (even though there was no evidence to suggest the 32 year old was armed). The officer asks to search the car, the man who knows his constitutional right objected, with the result that he was arrested. This arrest, reportedly, took place at gunpoint. The man was charged with 8 violations of Ferguson's municipal code's.

One of those charges is "making a false declaration" by stating that his name was Mike rather than Michael and giving his current address rather than his old address which was on his drivers license. He also got a ticket for not having his seat belt on when he was sitting in a parking spot with no car on. The man was also charged with having an expired operators license as well as having no operators license. The charges caused African American male to loose his job as a contractor with the federal government that he had been holding down for years.

other example:

March 2013, officers responded to the police station to take custody of a person wanted on a state warrant. When they arrived, they encountered a different man—not the subject of the warrant—who happened to be leaving the station. Having nothing to connect the man to the warrant subject, other than his presence at the station, the officers nonetheless stopped him and asked that he identify himself. The man asserted his rights, asking the officers “Why do you need to know?” and declining to be frisked. When the man then extended his identification toward the officers, at their request, the officers interpreted his hand motion as an attempted assault and took him to the ground. Without articulating reasonable suspicion or any other justification for the initial detention, the officers arrested the man on two counts of Failure to Comply and two counts of Resisting Arrest.

other example:

In 2013, FPD stopped a man running with a shopping cart because he seemed “suspicious.” According to the file, the man was “obviously mentally handicapped.” Officers took the man to the ground and attempted to arrest him for Failure to Comply after he refused to submit to a pat-down. In the officers’ view, the man resisted arrest by pulling his arms away. The officers drive-stunned him in the side of the neck. They charged him only with Failure to Comply and Resisting Arrest. In August 2011, officers used an ECW device against a man with diabetes who bit an EMT’s hand without breaking the skin. The man had been having seizures when he did not comply with officer commands.

etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

This is what caused the problems and the toxic atmosphere. The behavior of the police in that town is the reason for the problems, not the report or Holder.

Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Ikari said:

When you treat people like animals for long enough, it's what they become.

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This isn't the 60's. And race relations had come a very long way since then until about 6 years ago. Unemployment rate in black communities has doubled than the rest of the country. Today among blacks 70% of all babies are born to single mothers. This naturally creates a problem with poverty. It is these locations pushers and pimps seek out to build their clientele. A lot of their problems are self inflicted.

Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

Montecresto said:

Nobodies teaching anybody that cops are enemies. Holders report concludes that there are some problems in law enforcement, that there are some bad actors in law enforcement, and that it needs to be dealt with.

Seven e-mails from the JD's report.

November 2008: An e-mail said President Obama would not be president for very long because “what black man holds a steady job for four years.”

March 2010: An e-mail mocked African Americans through a story involving child support. One line from the e-mail read: “I be so glad that dis be my last child support payment! Month after month, year after year, all dose payments!”

April 2011: An e-mail depicted Obama as a chimpanzee.

May 2011: An e-mail said: “An African-American woman in New Orleans was admitted into the hospital for a pregnancy termination. Two weeks later she received a check for $5,000. She phoned the hospital to ask who it was from. The hospital said, ‘Crimestoppers.’”

June 2011: An e-mail described a man seeking to obtain “welfare” for his dogs because they are “mixed in color, unemployed, lazy, can’t speak English and have no frigging clue who their Daddies are.”

October 2011: An e-mail included a photo of a group of bare-chested women dancing, seemingly in Africa, with the caption, “Michelle Obama’s High School Reunion.”

December 2011: An e-mail included jokes that are based on offensive stereotypes about Muslims.

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I like how 7 emails pulled from at least 3 years ago, potentially all from the same person, prejudices people against an entire department. I give the DoJ an A+ in regards to being fair and just towards all the employees of the police department that either weren't included or didn't appreciate those jokes at the time.

Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

americanwoman said:

What comments of his were irresponsible?

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First they announced that Wilson was off the hook, which probably pissed off some people. Then they immediate announced the report results of systematic racism in the police department...............that was irresponsible. He should have known the risk of doing that.

Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

vesper said:

This isn't the 60's. And race relations had come a very long way since then until about 6 years ago. Unemployment rate in black communities has doubled than the rest of the country. Today among blacks 70% of all babies are born to single mothers. This naturally creates a problem with poverty. It is these locations pushers and pimps seek out to build their clientele. A lot of their problems are self inflicted.

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And yet the Justice Department's report of the Ferguson Police department seems to say something different.