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Thread: Two Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station[W:263]

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    Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Seeing the word 'many' in a report does nothing to quantify a statement that racism is prevalent. Juts how many were sent? Who sent them? Are they still employed? No doubt...the 7 emails cited in seven years were racist and should have resulted in at least a reprimand...but you need more to go on than several, and many.
    You're deliberately missing the point, both of the emails (which were sent by the BOSSES, which explains why there was no reprimand) and the larger picture painted by the report. The emails were actually just a symptom of the far bigger problems.

    Here's an easy thought experiment - how would you feel if you've rushed to the scene of a traffic accident involving your wife or child who is injured and bleeding, the police asks you to step away, in your state you refuse to leave her, and you're handcuffed, arrested, charged/cited for FIVE infractions, and your car towed and impounded? I understand people can be irrational and even dangerous at that point, but a cop doing his job calms him down, maybe puts him in the back of the car, and after he's back to normal gives the guy a damn ride to the hospital.

    And you're kidding yourself if the tone demonstrated by a department where the bosses are comfortable sending around racist jokes on work email doesn't contribute to outcomes like that above.

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    Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    That's nice, but you are aware that Holder is the only sitting member of the President's cabinet in all our history to be held in CRIMINAL contempt by congress. The news that he and his department are corrupt broke long enough ago that you have no excuse for defending them or buying their bull****.
    I notice the members of President Pinnochio's rear guard are careful not to mention that Mr. Holder made it the policy of his Justice Department not to prosecute black defendants in voting rights cases. That is why nothing happened to the two New Black Panthers who flagrantly violated federal voting laws by standing outside that polling place in Philadelphia intimidating people entering there. Near the end of President Bush's term, a court had already entered a default judgment against them, after they had contemptuously failed even to respond when summoned. At that point, convicting them would have been not much more than a formality, and yet Lackey General Holder ordered the prosecution dropped. Apparently leftists only approve of some race discrimination.

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    Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Again....you clearly didn't read the report. A lot more than that was cited, much of it clearly FAR worse than the bosses setting a nice tone from the top by sending around racist emails for giggles.

    If you're actually interested, take a few minutes and at least skim it. Then a lot of this discussion will begin to make sense if you have anything like an open mind and any concern at all about police misconduct.
    Ok...thats several minutes of my life I wont ever get back. If you read that report and DONT see it as a witch hunt, you are probably looking for witches too. Its LITTERED with anecdotal accounts and 'stories'

    "As for the email...the actual report cites 'several' officials. 'Several' over a 7 year span. In email messages and during interviews, several court
    and law enforcement personnel expressed discriminatory views and intolerance with regard to
    race, religion, and national origin."

    They go on to site seven examples...over a 7 year span. Sorry...that is inappropriate behavior...not not indicative of an epidemic. Are there problems? Yeah...I can easily see that there are problems. However many of the cited anecdotal accounts are over-dramatized or based on personal 'stories'. Much of the report is the damned if you dont, damned if you do variety. Ohmigawd...they laid hands on her? Why didnt they use tazers? Ohmigarsh...they used tazers...why didnt they physically manhandle her?

    At the very least, its nice to see so many people grasping the severity of allegations regarding the Secretary of State refusing to use government email services.

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    Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You're deliberately missing the point, both of the emails (which were sent by the BOSSES, which explains why there was no reprimand) and the larger picture painted by the report. The emails were actually just a symptom of the far bigger problems.

    Here's an easy thought experiment - how would you feel if you've rushed to the scene of a traffic accident involving your wife or child who is injured and bleeding, the police asks you to step away, in your state you refuse to leave her, and you're handcuffed, arrested, charged/cited for FIVE infractions, and your car towed and impounded? I understand people can be irrational and even dangerous at that point, but a cop doing his job calms him down, maybe puts him in the back of the car, and after he's back to normal gives the guy a damn ride to the hospital.

    And you're kidding yourself if the tone demonstrated by a department where the bosses are comfortable sending around racist jokes on work email doesn't contribute to outcomes like that above.
    SOME...not all. And when you site 'several' over a seven year span, that doesnt impress me.

    I read many of the accounts in the report. Some...as reported...were no doubt true. Others...as reported...had me asking...yes...and?

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    Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    He's a high govt official, who followed up a report exonerating Wilson (who btw had to leave his job and move out of town for no good reason except the race baiters who pronounced him guilty prior to the investigation), with comments that racism was pervasive throughout the Ferguson police department. He could have handled that much differently, but chose to make a public spectacle out of it for political reasons.
    So in the reality you inhabit, both things are not possible to be true?
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    Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Do you realize that the justice department employs 125,000 people. Many of whom were there before Holder arrived, and who will be there after he departs. Do you have any idea how many people were actively involved in this investigation, and whether or not any of them had met Holder prior to this assignment. Are you suggesting the documented crimes in this report are fabrications. That the JD employees fabricated racist e-mails, that the documented violations of the first, fourth and fourteenth amendments are also fabrications. That the documented witness accounts were created by justice department employees. Is that where clownboy stands??
    Hmmm, manufacture a strawman and then ask if I'm willing to stand with it. You're joking, right?

    I think Holder was directed to have the report made and for it to be weighted in a certain way. Holder orders his department heads and the troops supply the data. Omissions and commissions, deciding what to cut and what to keep.

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    Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    No, there may be racism in Ferguson's department. There may be racism in every police department but I don't believe it's pervasive.
    There's no "maybe" about it. The DoJ documented pervasive discrimination in the criminal justice system in Ferguson but I recognize that you won't accept any argument, no matter how sound.

    it fits in with your refusal to read the report.

    I think if you look hard and long enough you'll find it everywhere but on balance it's minimal. I don't believe that racism in Ferguson is systemic.
    I think you're trying everything you can to not look at the facts, beginning with not reading the report. It's absurd to render such opinions while refusing to consider the facts.
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    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    Frankly, reading this you see it transcends the politics. It is not even so much a ace issue as it is corruption.

    If anyone should ask which came first, the crime in that area that needed tough policing, or the over-the-top policing causing the push back, I would say yes. And at this point, it is time to let go of legitimate beefs on Holder, and focus on the fact Americans are dying and suffering needlessly at the hands of other Americans. That's just wrong and it has to stop.
    I agree that the issue transcends politics but reading this thread shows that many people can't do the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Hmmm, manufacture a strawman and then ask if I'm willing to stand with it. You're joking, right?

    I think Holder was directed to have the report made and for it to be weighted in a certain way. Holder orders his department heads and the troops supply the data. Omissions and commissions, deciding what to cut and what to keep.
    Your assertions that Holder is corrupt, therefore the 125,000 person justice department team is corrupt is baseless, your strawman. Look here, racism, lawlessness and police as well as court corruption have been documented in a report that rubs your nose in something you don't like. Of course your going to dismiss it. But go right ahead, it won't matter. The FPD won't be able to do that!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Seeing the word 'many' in a report does nothing to quantify a statement that racism is prevalent. Juts how many were sent? Who sent them? Are they still employed? No doubt...the 7 emails cited in seven years were racist and should have resulted in at least a reprimand...but you need more to go on than several, and many.
    The report documents many other instances of racial discrimination including policies that are unconstitutional that have been used against hundreds of black people in Ferguson.

    But you keep counting emails. If you spend enough time doing that, you'll have a great excuse for not reading the report (ie "I'm too busy")
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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