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Thread: Two Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station[W:263]

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    Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Yes, you're right. So remove all these KKK wannabes, and the problem is solved in Ferguson. What is Holder waiting for?
    It doesn't matter how many times you repeat that silliness, it's not going to make any sense at some point. Clearly, you haven't read the JD's report either, otherwise you'd know that it doesn't conclude that racism in the FPD is the problem for all that ails Ferguson.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    And we're back to blaming the cops, and with the clear support of someone who said earlier that it wasn't the cop's fault. Weird.
    You're misstating the issue completely. On one side we've got people blaming Holder and the DOJ for a report that revealed a completely dysfunctional and abusive police department. If you're read any of the report, the problems just are severe. One of the ones that stuck in my mind was when the boyfriend was at the scene of a car wreck where his girlfriend was badly injured and bleeding. When the cops arrived, they tried to get the boyfriend to back away, and he didn't or didn't do it fast enough, which is understandable - it's an emotional thing to see someone hurt and bleeding. So the cop then left the injured person, bleeding, arrested the kid, and charged him with FIVE infractions, and had his car towed and impounded. Several cases where women called the cops over domestic abuse, and during the investigation the WOMEN were ticketed for code violations. How willing are you to trust cops who come to investigate a crime against YOU and then give you a ticket?

    The point is it's not Holder's fault for putting this kind of systemic dysfunction into a report. Does that mean it's the "cops" fault that some asshole shot two of them? No. But it's not Holder's fault that his department revealed a troublesome environment at the police department that is tasked with public safety, not generating revenue off the backs of its citizens.

    And it's really not just a problem with Ferguson. I read a long article a while back and the entire area has too many little fiefdoms and they all need to pay for their own police, municipal government etc. and how they do it is through fines and penalties. And it just preys on the poor and gets them into downward spirals that are hard to emerge from, but the problem is the fines piled on penalties piled on warrants and court costs is a feature, not a bug, of how these little fiefdoms pay the bills.

    The other thing, and this isn't directed at anyone in particular, is it's just bizarre that the right wing has a general distrust for the government, and is I assume opposed to what would approach a police state. But the report on Ferguson is a picture of the worst kind of government abuse against its citizens, and a great many of the conservatives here are blaming the messenger instead of for once joining with liberals in condemning government abuse of power. It really is something that should unite all sides - there is no defense of it. I have to assume, and hope, that those making light of the report haven't read any of it. If you can read it and find any reason for the black community to trust the police in that town, I will be amazed.

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    Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Nobodies teaching anybody that cops are enemies. Holders report concludes that there are some problems in law enforcement, that there are some bad actors in law enforcement, and that it needs to be dealt with.

    Seven e-mails from the JD's report.

    November 2008: An e-mail said President Obama would not be president for very long because “what black man holds a steady job for four years.”

    March 2010: An e-mail mocked African Americans through a story involving child support. One line from the e-mail read: “I be so glad that dis be my last child support payment! Month after month, year after year, all dose payments!”

    April 2011: An e-mail depicted Obama as a chimpanzee.

    May 2011: An e-mail said: “An African-American woman in New Orleans was admitted into the hospital for a pregnancy termination. Two weeks later she received a check for $5,000. She phoned the hospital to ask who it was from. The hospital said, ‘Crimestoppers.’”

    June 2011: An e-mail described a man seeking to obtain “welfare” for his dogs because they are “mixed in color, unemployed, lazy, can’t speak English and have no frigging clue who their Daddies are.”

    October 2011: An e-mail included a photo of a group of bare-chested women dancing, seemingly in Africa, with the caption, “Michelle Obama’s High School Reunion.”

    December 2011: An e-mail included jokes that are based on offensive stereotypes about Muslims.

    Are thoughts now crimes in this country? If the entire Ferguson police department had been making jokes and cracks like those all the time, that would not show that any member of it ever broke any law in his treatment any black resident of Ferguson. Some officers there may feel many of those people are not worthy of their personal respect--and I would not blame them--but that does not mean those officers did not do their job properly.

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    Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    7 emails dating back 4 years and more isn't indicative of much. I assumed there was something more than that?
    Trivialize the racist e-mails all you want. You're also not factoring in how many people these filthy e-mails were sent to who had themselves a good laugh as well, and failed to report them. The racism problem in the FPD is bigger than the tip you see. Read the JD's report, instead of speaking from ignorance and appearing to be a racist yourself!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The DoJ is not responsible for a communities "atmosphere". However, they do have a responsibility for monitoring police depts, particularly those with a history of racial discrimination.

    But you keep on pretending that the report was nothing but a compilation of statistics if it helps you maintain plausible deniability about the racist practices of the Ferguson PD

    Department of Justice report on the Ferguson, Mo. Police Department - The Washington Post
    I'm not saying that it's not possible that there are racial issues within the Ferguson police department but anecdotal evidence of racism is probably the worst indicator, especially when the investigation focuses on how the police department abuses minorities. The possibility exists that the police department abuses everyone and minority anecdotes are used in the report because the desired outcome of the report was that the department was racist. I have never been to Ferguson and I'm not making claims about them one way or another, I do believe that the Justice Department is racist under Holder and I wouldn't put anything past them.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Given who you're speaking to, that says a bunch about who the real pos is. A couple racist cops got shot, why are you not in a more jovial mood?
    That's pretty sick dude! Were the cops that got shot racist??
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    If you can read it and find any reason for the black community to trust the police in that town, I will be amazed.
    No black person is required to trust any police officer in the least. Blacks are only required to obey the laws, just like people of other races.

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    Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It doesn't matter how many times you repeat that silliness, it's not going to make any sense at some point. Clearly, you haven't read the JD's report either, otherwise you'd know that it doesn't conclude that racism in the FPD is the problem for all that ails Ferguson.
    Right. The basic problem that I see is the core police function appears to be - hand out tickets, collect fines, to pay for the local government. And so the citizens are seen as sources of revenue, and the more tickets any officer can write, the better he's doing his job. It's a perfect way for the police to be seen as the enemy and not any kind of partner in maintaining peace and order. "Hey, citizen, so sorry your girlfriend got in a wreck and is injured and bleeding. But while we wait on the ambulance, why don't I pull you away from your loved one, arrest you write you up for FIVE infractions, and we'll impound and tow your car. Have a nice day sir!"

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    Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Especially with the Professional Protestors.....easy to discover they don't live there, huh?
    I don't live in Ferguson either, but I'm as concerned about police force racism in that town as I am in my own.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: 2 Officers Are Shot Outside Ferguson Police Station

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Trivialize the racist e-mails all you want. You're also not factoring in how many people these filthy e-mails were sent to who had themselves a good laugh as well, and failed to report them. The racism problem in the FPD is bigger than the tip you see. Read the JD's report, instead of speaking from ignorance and appearing to be a racist yourself!
    I don't give a damn if every cop on the force had a low opinion of blacks. That is not evidence that even one of those cops ever violated the civil rights on even one black person.

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