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Putin awards medal to chief suspect in Litvinenko murder

face said:
The US hasn't annexed territory for nearly a century; furthermore, this is how things were done by powerful nations during the colonial era, but now we have a little thing called the UN Charter and the Nuremberg Principles which prohibit aggressive wars of conquest and have since WW2, it's called international law and Putin overtly violated it with the annexation of the Crimea.
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I could give a **** about international law when the vast majority (well over 80%) of a region vote to leave their country. Canada allows it's provinces to leave with only a referendum vote of about 65%...the referendum in the Crimea was over 80% to join Russia.

And Putin was smart to deploy his troops as he did...and I guarantee you it saved lives since he did not allow Ukraine to fight for the land - as it is doing in the Donetsk region. The Ukraine is willing to kill it's own citizens rather then let them leave even when the vast majority of that region's citizen's vote to leave (like they also did in the Donetsk region).

Putin is a pig. But the Kiev government is at least as bad in this case and far, far more stupid. They illegally overthrew a government that was legally elected and all those knuckle heads had to do was wait a few months for the next scheduled elections to throw the guy out. But no, these idiots could not wait and look what the result is...Ukraine is a mess.


And America are WAY worse then Russia in terms of killing people. They have killed thousands of innocent civilians over the last 12 years. Overthrown regimes whenever they felt like it. Supported horrible regimes like the one in Saudi Arabia (which beheads FAR more people then ISIS). They commit technical acts of war by bombing countries with drone strikes. They detain innocent people for years without charge. Sure, Russia has done wrong. But compared to them, America hais done WAY worse.


And save your answer, I have NO respect for you on this subject and could care less what your closed minded response is.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
That wasn't even a major point within the OP, and America was never mentioned. You're just here to spew anti-American rhetoric without addressing the topic. I have no problem criticizing American foreign policy, but when you try to insert it into threads about presidents murdering political dissidents, you're being incredibly dishonest and you're derailing the thread on purpose.
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The point about presidents murdering political dissidents was already addressed by me.
 
face said:
The US hasn't annexed territory for nearly a century; furthermore, this is how things were done by powerful nations during the colonial era, but now we have a little thing called the UN Charter and the Nuremberg Principles which prohibit aggressive wars of conquest and have since WW2, it's called international law and Putin overtly violated it with the annexation of the Crimea.
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Which superpower has violated the UN Charter?
“The use of force is lawful only when in exercise of self-defense in accordance with Article 51 of the United Nations Charter and/or when the Security Council approves such action. That is the firm principle of the United Nations,”
 
face said:
Putin awards medal to chief suspect in Litvinenko murder
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Putin himself received the award when he was a KGB Colonel.

Andrei Lugovoi was an agent of both the KGB and the FSB. He is one of two wanted suspects in the polonium-poisoning murder of Alexander Litvinenko in London in 2006. Russia has refused to extradite Lugovoi or to try him in a Russian court. Lugovoi is currently a deputy in the Russian lower house of parliament and and a member of the Liberal Democratic Party of Russia which is headed by Vladimir Zhirinovsky ... an obnoxious and controversial Russian uber-nationalist.
 
RDS said:
History shows both US and Russia are imperialists. It's like "the pot calling the kettle black".
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I really hate having to repeat myself, going back to 1898 for your example proves nothing about today.
 
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RDS said:
The OP mentioned Russian Imperialist Expansionism. USA has similar ambitions using economic threats.
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Ah yes, because trade sanctions are exactly the same as invading your neighbors and annexing their territory and then proceeding to commit ethnic cleansing on said territory. :roll:
 
DA60 said:
I could give a **** about international law when the vast majority (well over 80%) of a region vote to leave their country. Canada allows it's provinces to leave with only a referendum vote of about 65%...the referendum in the Crimea was over 80% to join Russia.
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If you believe that 97% of the Crimea which only has a 60% ethnic Russian population voted for annexation by Russia then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

Furthermore; the annexation referendum was conducted under military occupation, through a foreign installed occupation government, was in violation of both the Crimean and Ukrainian Constitutions, and has been condemned as illegal by the UNGA and the UNSC, only the Russian veto on prevented the unanimous passing of the latter.

And Putin was smart to deploy his troops as he did...and I guarantee you it saved lives since he did not allow Ukraine to fight for the land - as it is doing in the Donetsk region. The Ukraine is willing to kill it's own citizens rather then let them leave even when the vast majority of that region's citizen's vote to leave (like they also did in the Donetsk region).
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Oh freaking spare us Russian backed terrorists turned Donetsk into an armed camp ruled by fear, terror, kidnappings of politicians, journalists, and human rights activists, and the mass murder of civilians including those who refused to fight against their fellow Ukrainians, and now in the Crimea we have overt ethnic cleansing of ethnic Ukrainians.

“We are talking of a reign of fear, if not of terror” in the pockets of territory around Donetsk and Luhansk controlled by armed separatists and now experiencing a state of total lawlessness, Mr. Magazzeni said, citing cases of people shot at checkpoints for no reason and members of armed groups who were summarily shot because they no longer wanted to fight.

“The escalation in criminal activity resulting in human rights abuses is no longer limited to targeting journalists, elected representatives, local politicians, civil servants and civil society activists,” the report stated. “Abductions, detentions, acts of ill-treatment and torture, and killings by armed groups are now affecting the broader population of the two eastern regions.”

The United Nations refugee agency has reported that more than 34,000 Ukrainians have been displaced. Most were from Crimea, where people who speak Ukrainian or do not want to change their nationality to Russian face discrimination and intimidation, Mr. Magazzeni said.

“They are mostly concerned about security: people report staying in cellars to keep away from the fighting, facing harassment at checkpoints and fearing the increasingly common abductions, threats and extortion,” the monitors reported.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/19/w...tails-casualties-in-eastern-ukraine.html?_r=0

Their "declaration of independence" has as much legitimacy as that of ISIL's declaration of an Islamic State in the Levant, IE none whatsoever.

Furthermore; Donetsk and Luhansk have majority ethnic Ukrainian population:


According to the (2001 census), the ethnic makeup of Crimea's population consists of the following self-reported groups: Russians:1.18 million (58.3%), Ukrainians: 492,200 (24.3%), Crimean Tatars: 243,400 (12.0%), Belarusians: 29,200 (1.4%), other Tatars: 11,000 (0.5%), Armenians: 8,7000 (0.4%).[4]

Demographics of Crimea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
At the 2001 Ukrainian National Census, the ethnic groups within the Donetsk Oblast were: Ukrainians – 2,744,100 (56.9%), Russians – 1,844,400 (38.2%), Pontic Greeks – 77,500 (1.6%), Belarusians – 44,500 (0.9%), others (2.3%).[9]

Donetsk Oblast - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The population is largely Russian-speaking, although ethnic Ukrainians constitute a majority (58.0%). Among the minorities are native Russians (39.1%), Belarusians (0.8%), and others (1.4%).

Luhansk Oblast - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you believe that 97% of the Crimea which only has a 60% ethnic Russian population and 90% of Donetsk which actually has an ethnic Ukrainian majority voted for annexation by Russia then I have a great deal for you on a bridge I own in Brooklyn. :roll:
 
DA60 said:
Putin is a pig. But the Kiev government is at least as bad in this case and far, far more stupid. They illegally overthrew a government that was legally elected and all those knuckle heads had to do was wait a few months for the next scheduled elections to throw the guy out. But no, these idiots could not wait and look what the result is...Ukraine is a mess.
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The duly elected Ukrainian parliament voted to oust Yanukovych, even his own party disowned the criminal.

The dAnd America are WAY worse then Russia in terms of killing people. They have killed thousands of innocent civilians over the last 12 years. Overthrown regimes whenever they felt like it. Supported horrible regimes like the one in Saudi Arabia (which beheads FAR more people then ISIS).
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The last time I checked it is Russia not the US which has committed ethnic cleansing in the territories they occupy, furthermore, the majority of civilian deaths came at the hands of the people the US was fighting. As to Saudi Arabia the RF supports regimes just as bad (see Iran, North Korea, Syria et al), hell in terms of tyrannical regimes the Russian Federation ranks pretty low on the press freedom index itself.

They commit technical acts of war by bombing countries with drone strikes. They detain innocent people for years without charge. Sure, Russia has done wrong. But compared to them, America hais done WAY worse.
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lol, please don't lecture the US on our judicial system when you're attempting to use it to defend Russia, the two do not compare.

And save your answer, I have NO respect for you on this subject and could care less what your closed minded response is.
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I have no respect for payed Russian trolls claiming to be from the West.
 
face said:
Putin is an internationally condemned war criminal, the Ukraine was not Russia's enemy and never threatened their base in the Crimea, and the assertions regarding protection of ethnic Russians is just as laughable as Hitler's claim that the invasions of Poland and greater Czechoslovakia were to protect German minorities.
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What international body condemned Putin so?
 
joG said:
Not really. The expansion into the West was not imperial in the normal sense of the word and after some early flirting with the idea and experimentation the US seems to have decided that it was not what the US is about. All you might say is that the US has been a hegemonistic culture due to its dynamism, size and commitment to the democracy and free trade. But that is not a bad thing.
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What did the US lift off of Spain at the conclusion of the Spanish American war?

As you can see, even seventh graders are taught about American imperialism!!!

THE BEGINNING OF US IMPERIALISM AND THE SPANISH-AMERICAN WAR
Grade Level: Presented By:
Length of Unit:
Seventh Grade
Ember Babcock, Todd Craig, and Christian Shute, Academy of Charter Schools, Denver, CO
Five Lessons
I. ABSTRACT
A. This seventh grade history unit focuses on the people and events involved in the Spanish-
American war and how it transformed the United States into an imperialistic world
power. Students shall understand and conceptualize the reasons for the war, the main events and battles of the war, and how the results affected the United States’ role in world politics.
 
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face said:
I really hate having to repeat myself, going back to 1898 for your example proves nothing about today.
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face said:
Ah yes, because trade sanctions are exactly the same as invading your neighbors and annexing their territory and then proceeding to commit ethnic cleansing on said territory. :roll:
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These days you don't need physical military in colonised lands. You can do the same using violent threats, political pressure and sanctions. The US has appointed itself the global leader and policeman. The entire civilized world is America's colony.
 
Montecresto said:
What did the US lift off of Spain at the conclusion of the Spanish American war?

As you can see, even seventh graders are taught about American imperialism!!!

THE BEGINNING OF US IMPERIALISM AND THE SPANISH-AMERICAN WAR
Grade Level: Presented By:
Length of Unit:
Seventh Grade
Ember Babcock, Todd Craig, and Christian Shute, Academy of Charter Schools, Denver, CO
Five Lessons
I. ABSTRACT
A. This seventh grade history unit focuses on the people and events involved in the Spanish-
American war and how it transformed the United States into an imperialistic world
power. Students shall understand and conceptualize the reasons for the war, the main events and battles of the war, and how the results affected the United States’ role in world politics.
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That does not conflict with what i said, you know?
 
RDS said:
These days you don't need physical military in colonised lands. You can do the same using violent threats, political pressure and sanctions. The US has appointed itself the global leader and policeman. The entire civilized world is America's colony.
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Indeed!

im·pe·ri·al·ism
imˈpirēəˌlizəm/
noun
a policy of extending a country's power and influence through diplomacy or military force.
 
Four pages in and so far not a thing about Putin awarding Litvinenko's poisoner an award in the OP

Instead just the usual suspects ranting on about the historic iniquities of the US either real or imagined .... ho hum :yawn:
 
Montecresto said:
What international body condemned Putin so?
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The UNGA and UNSC:


United Nations General Assembly Resolution 68/262

The resolution, which was supported by 100 United Nations member states, affirmed the United Nations commitment to recognize Crimea within Ukraine’s international borders and underscored the invalidity of the 2014 Crimean referendum. Armenia, Belarus, Bolivia, Cuba, North Korea, Nicaragua, Russia, Sudan, Syria, Venezuela and Zimbabwe all voted against the resolution. There were also 58 abstentions, and a further 24 states did not vote through being absent when the vote took place.

United Nations General Assembly Resolution 68/262 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

General Assembly Adopts Resolution Calling upon States Not to Recognize Changes in Status of Crimea Region

General Assembly Adopts Resolution Calling upon States Not to Recognize Changes in Status of Crimea Region | Meetings Coverage and Press Releases

Even the UNSC voted against it and had it not been for Russia's permanent member status it would have passed, even China abstained which was tantamount to a yes vote:

15 March 2014 – Owing to the negative vote of one of its permanent members, the United Nations Security Council today failed to adopt a draft resolution which urged countries not to recognize the results of this weekend's referendum in Crimea.

Thirteen of the Council's 15 members voted in favour of the draft text, Russia voted against, and China abstained. A veto by any of the Council's five permanent members – China, France, Russia, the United Kingdom and the United States – means a resolution cannot be adopted.

United Nations News Centre - UN Security Council action on Crimea referendum blocked

Only the Russian veto prevented the unanimous passing of the latter.
 
RDS said:
LOL...who is playing imperialist? USA or Russia?
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DA60 said:
And America are WAY worse then Russia in terms of killing people. They have killed thousands of innocent civilians over the last 12 years. Overthrown regimes whenever they felt like it. Supported horrible regimes like the one in Saudi Arabia (which beheads FAR more people then ISIS). They commit technical acts of war by bombing countries with drone strikes. They detain innocent people for years without charge. Sure, Russia has done wrong. But compared to them, America hais done WAY worse.
Click to expand...

Montecresto said:
What did the US lift off of Spain at the conclusion of the Spanish American war?

As you can see, even seventh graders are taught about American imperialism!!!
Click to expand...

So many whataboutisms. Seriously, your positions need nuance.
 
RDS said:
These days you don't need physical military in colonised lands. You can do the same using violent threats, political pressure and sanctions. The US has appointed itself the global leader and policeman. The entire civilized world is America's colony.
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lol delusional nonsense. Let's just change definitions on a whim whenever it suits our argument.
 
face said:
The UNGA and UNSC:


United Nations General Assembly Resolution 68/262

The resolution, which was supported by 100 United Nations member states, affirmed the United Nations commitment to recognize Crimea within Ukraine’s international borders and underscored the invalidity of the 2014 Crimean referendum. Armenia, Belarus, Bolivia, Cuba, North Korea, Nicaragua, Russia, Sudan, Syria, Venezuela and Zimbabwe all voted against the resolution. There were also 58 abstentions, and a further 24 states did not vote through being absent when the vote took place.

United Nations General Assembly Resolution 68/262 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

General Assembly Adopts Resolution Calling upon States Not to Recognize Changes in Status of Crimea Region

General Assembly Adopts Resolution Calling upon States Not to Recognize Changes in Status of Crimea Region | Meetings Coverage and Press Releases

Even the UNSC voted against it and had it not been for Russia's permanent member status it would have passed, even China abstained which was tantamount to a yes vote:

15 March 2014 – Owing to the negative vote of one of its permanent members, the United Nations Security Council today failed to adopt a draft resolution which urged countries not to recognize the results of this weekend's referendum in Crimea.

Thirteen of the Council's 15 members voted in favour of the draft text, Russia voted against, and China abstained. A veto by any of the Council's five permanent members – China, France, Russia, the United Kingdom and the United States – means a resolution cannot be adopted.

United Nations News Centre - UN Security Council action on Crimea referendum blocked

Only the Russian veto prevented the unanimous passing of the latter.
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Sorry dude, I don't know where you came up, but if you think that China's abstinence is affirmation, then you're just a wee bit round.
 
Can't believe the partisan assholes one has to deal with at DP.
 
Montecresto said:
Sorry dude, I don't know where you came up, but if you think that China's abstinence is affirmation, then you're just a wee bit round.
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Everyone was voting yes, the abstention was tantamount to a yes vote, had they supported the Russian position they would have voted no.
 
face said:
Everyone was voting yes, the abstention was tantamount to a yes vote, had they supported the Russian position they would have voted no.
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Sorry, your wrong. And you either don't understand politics, or you are being intentionally obtuse.
 
Montecresto said:
Sorry, your wrong. And you either don't understand politics, or you are being intentionally obtuse.
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He is right. China abstaining is a procedural maneuver for affirming the resolution without officially embarrassing Russia. It is an expedient vehicle for not actively blocking a measure. In most assemblies, an abstention on a matter decided by unanimity has the effect of a yes vote.
 
Simpleχity;1064430590 said:
He is right. China abstaining is a procedural maneuver for affirming the resolution without officially embarrassing Russia. It is an expedient vehicle for not actively blocking a measure. In most assemblies, an abstention on a matter decided by unanimity has the effect of a yes vote.
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I don't deny its effect. It certainly does not mean that China's position is in the affirmative though, and let the US continue on the same FP course we're on and we'll continue to drive these two reluctant partners closer together, and eventually, China's interests will be even more supportive of Russia.

As the following headlines show, bad American policy has pushed Russia, China and Iran closer together:

China calls for new Asian security structure based on group with Russia, Iran that excludes US (Fox)
Russia may build eight nuclear reactors for Iran (Reuters)
Russia signs 30-year gas deal with China (BBC)
Putin Post-Mortem: “Unipolar Model Of World Is Over… Give Us Our Money” (Zero Hedge)
As we’ve repeatedly warned, the neocons and neolibs have pushed so hard to ensure a “New American Century” – i.e. American hegemony for another 100 years – that they’ve instead created “No American Century”.

Beware Collusion of China, Russia
U.S. policies have created a risk of pushing two great powers together.

Beware Collusion of China, Russia | The National Interest


ANALYSIS · CHINA · RUSSIA · US
Flawed US Foreign Policy Encourages Russia-China Alliance
by Aurangzeb Qureshi May 29, 2014 No Comments

http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com...eign-policy-encourages-russia-china-alliance/

Here's How The Ukraine Crisis Is Deepening Military Ties Between China And Russia
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/russ...g-ties-against-the-west-2014-10#ixzz3UeNm2iVu
 
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